For or Against the Death Penalty?

I would say I am for it, if it pertains to murder of children, even as far as sexual crimes vs children should warrant the death penalty.

But for capital murder, my opinion is based soley upon facts of the case. If that makes sense (IE. Gangbangers killing each other etc)

From my understanding these posts always seem to be deleted (maybe i am wrong?). Obviously it is a very passionate subject for most people whether they are for or against. I actually wanted to print out a copy of the last one we had as it was so long and thought my pal would be interested. I have not actually copied opinions on here before, but the whole post was deleted over night, so missed my chance to show him what a lot of people think. But in saying that he is a smart man i am sure he knows.

Yea, I understand...This post should be deleted, no good will come out of this, just posters being upset with each other..

Should of thought about the ramifications before I posted this...Sorry everyone...This was something I wondered about with all the great supportive posters out there... PLEASE DELETE THIS POST, thanks.

No wonder why I couldn't find it....

aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Jane, they have that choice now... it's called suicide.

The post doesn't necessarily need to be delted. It is a good topic. However, we have to keep in mind that we may have to agree to disagree.

The death penalty is a topic that can become easily heated. It's kind of like politics and religion, a hard topic to have.

When it comes to the death penalty, I am not really for nor against it. This is difficult for me in some ways, as my faith believes that since we are not the author of life, we do not have the right to take life.

This is hard for me because there are individuals incarcerated who will never change, or their crimes were so horrific that there should be an ultimate punishment.

When I think of that, I remember back when my honey was on death row. He, along with many others, were at peace with what landed them on death row. They were 'ready'. There had been points in their lives when dropping all appeals and allowing the state to execute them made more sense then the torture of sitting on death row.

It has been said that those with a life sentence would rather be dead than live out their years behind bars, and then there are some on death row who would give a limb to have a life sentence. As a life sentence has more hopes and possibilities than setting on death row.

I think our country needs to have proper punishment for the crimes. Each case should be looked at in its own unique way.

I could give valid points as to why I could be for or against it. However, that would only create a debate and the last thing I want to do is make havoc on a thread.

The only way I am really for the death penalty is if and only if the person convicted has been allowed to have proper DNA testing done, and the right to proper council. The evidence, no matter how old should be allowed a final glance before taking the life of someone. I also feel the individual should be give proper medical evaluations by a private source that will be fair and impartial to the individuals mental state both at the time of arrest and just before any 'execution' is carried out.

The type cases I speak of are
those that a extremely violent and have occured on more than one occassion, and crimes that have more to them than just the initial charge.

I could list specific cases, but out of respect for others on the board I will leave that out.

please excuse any typos or mispelled words, it's too late and I am too tired to run spell check ;)

Humm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Jane, lethal injection "serene", you sound like me before i researched the death penalty and what it REALLY MEANS.

You have been sadly mistaken by my intention, son.

:D

Sorry if i misunderstood you... my mistake, but for me personally there is nothing comical in the death penalty or anything surrounding it.

I found something interesting. If you go to TEXAS's site (can be found from any WP profile from the state of texas, link to Texas Dept. Corrections)

Shows a link for prisioners Executed -- has there case (kind of) and last words --

I read every single one over 2 days and the most surprising thing is: 99% had an education level of 12 grade or below... Does this mean "education" is the answer?? The more educated someone is the less likely they will end up on the row.

Smiley,
I sent a copy of a long debate, in regards to the DP, to a PP in South Carolina. The mail room committee held that letter for 5 months, before sending it back, saying that it created a threat the the peace and tranquility of the prison atmosphere, or something like that. And then, they had the audacity to charge my PPs account for the cost of shipping it back: 83¢.
I guess it worked out, for her, because I sent her $10 to make up for it. :-)
I just thought that I would tell you that, in case you are still thinking about sending it to your PP.

Dave, i find that strange to think opinions would be classed as a threat, thanks for the advice. I talk about WAP to my pal, but no specifics, and have not sent any postings or opinions from this or any other forum.

Golf, i too have read every single post. I actually asked opinions about it not so long back. Do you think we have the right/need to know such personal information? is it an invasion of there privacy? what is your opinion on that and did you learn anything while reading there stories? I'd like to hear you comments.

sorry smiley for not being clear

I recently read an article (NY Times I think it was in) that reported on the increasing number of inmates in capital cases who refused a plea bargain because it meant they would have a proper investigation of their case.

I may not be the brightest button in the box, but what kind of defence system is it that requires you to put your life on the line to ensure that the case against you is given proper scrutiny? Seems the only ones getting 'justice' are those who can afford it, and that's worrying :(

I am totally against it no matter who the person is. I not have a popular opinion but even with the current executions, I still did not feel even when they executed tim McVeigh. I do not condone any of their crimes however. I think no one not even the goverment has the right to kill. I keep on thinking of what Martin Luther King said and of course it wasnt about the death penalty but of why he believed in non-violence. He said that "a eye for a eye would only leave everyone blind." I its not a popular opinion but its just my opinion.

I'm sure this will not make me a popular person, but I'm for the death penalty for certain crimes, most of all, when it comes to crimes comitted against 'minor' children or against innocent people, there is absolutely 'no' rational or logical reason for these types of crimes, and for those who carry out such crimes should pay the ultimate price for doing so.

I'm not trying to make this thread a heated one, this is not my intention, nor will I participate in doing so by debating this, it's simply the way I feel, nothing more.

As for the execution of Tim McVeigh, I don't feel as though 'we're even' (as he couldn't be executed that many times) for the number of innocent lives he helped take that day in Oklahoma, but I do feel somewhat safer knowing Mr. MeVeigh will never have the opportunity to do it again. I, myself, find these types of people to be like Adolph Hitler, just on a lesser scale, and it's a pity that Hitler took his own life (a cowardly act), as I would've prferred him to be executed by the hands of the very people he tried so desperately to exterminate. Individuals such as these should be put to death, not to get even, but to make sure their minds are nolonger capable of conceiving such horrific acts and then having them carried out.

As for the death penalty in general, I believe it should only be carried out after all the facts of each and every case have been careful weigh and considered, and if there is absolutely no question to the guilt of the accused (through all scientific testing and witnesses), then and only then, should that person be put to death.

Now, as for Martin Luther King, he was a very smart and compassionate man, and I salute his efforts and all the work he did in his short life, what a pity someone took his life. I honestly believe this world would've been a much nicer place had he had the chance to carry out his dream of freedom and equality.

Plastercat

Waterstreetred,
In answer to your question. That kind of defense stems from a long American tradition. Back when we were still hunting witches, one method of determining the guilt or innocence of the accused, was to dunk them, under water, for a long period of time.
If they survived, they were deemed guilty, because they obviously used their witchly powers to save themselves. Thus they were tied to a stake and burned alive.
If they drowned, they were innocent. Oops! Too late!
Oh well . . it seemed fair at the time. :-(
Maybe with another three or four hundred years, we will impove the system.

I am very against it.

I am not sure if I am for or against, depends on the situation, all I know is I would not want to be in that situation to have to decide.

.......................

I guess I'm for it (based on the circumstances of the case)

BUT ONLY if DNA proves and there is absolutely NO DOUBT about the capital crime commited. ONLY 100% not 99.9%

This is one of those important topics that make me well....nauseated. It's because I can't really be FOR or AGAINST it perse...it's more of the fact that there are some absolutely horrible crimes that I feel the perp needs a higher power spanking...if that even makes sense.

against it.

In favor of it. Scott Peterson, David Westerfield, Alberto Avila. Can't go soon enough for me.

I only wish we could reform the appeals system so it didn't take 5 years for them to get a lawyer and 25 years for the sentence to be carried out.

I was somewhat skeptical, until I read one story that drove it home for me, and now I am a firm believer in the death penalty. The story was about Cary Ann Medlin, who told her killer "Jesus loves you" right before he murdered her in cold blood. After reading that, I don't think anyone could believe the death penalty is not warranted in certain cases!

There are MANY stories like that. Here are 2 more from the trials I mentioned early.

Prosecutors presented evidence in the Danielle Van Damm case that they found her PALM print on the wall above the headboard of the bed in David Westerfield's RV. It doesn't take a creative mind to figure out what that poor little girl was going through when the made that palm print.

When detectives searched Alberto Avila's car, they found Samantha Runyon's TEARS in his trunk. Can you imagine what must have been going through that little girl's mind when she was locked in that trunk?

But I should feel sympathy for Tookie Williams because he is redeemed. No, I am sorry. I don't.

I certainly believe that there are people deserving of the death penalty.
But when it` s matter of executing/killing another person I could only support the death penalty when the human race is without ;
Political motivation; Human susceptibility to making mistakes; The basic instinct to enact revenge as justice; Can provide competent legal representation to all of the accused – regardless of their circumstances.
Treats all victims as being of equal worth, and all offenders being equally reprehensible.

So I guess my answer is no. I don`t support the DP.

strongly against it i do not feel anyone has the right to pick who lives or dies not even the government

I am in the minority on this here on WAP but I think it's underused if anything.

While I won't go as far to say an eye for an eye I think putting one to death for killing another is reasonable. Of course you will have your grey zones like abuse and such and there are plenty of mitigating factors to go around but there are plenty of situations such as this.

A. Crackhead sees parent of two children at a cash station late at night because she has to pick up a gallon of milk on the way home. Crackhead attacks her and it results in her death. Why should he live?

B. Stalking boyfriend has threatened his former beau and she's already gone though the motions including an order of protection. Stalker shows up during a date with the new boyfiend and kills him. Does this guy deserve to live?

This is what I'm talking about. While some believe in rehabilitation I believe in removal. Some people in prison are very dangerous as most are not there for non-violent protests.

It's just my opinion but I also belive if people knew the consequences were deeper they may think twice about their actions.

THis is such a difficult topic, because there is no way anyone can really say John Couey deserves to live for what he did to Jessica Lunsford. Even to this day I am still saddend for her! NO ONE DESERVES WHAT HAPPEND TO this poor little girl...I makes me SICK to even think she was buried alive... How can people do this to other people??? Why??

The only thing I wish is, I can be there when Mr. John Evander Couey stands before GOD --- what I wouldn't do to be there!

What I would give to tell him when he is standing at the elevator at God's gates "Your Going Down"

I just looked up John Couey as i am unaware of his case. What i read was a news paper article and it states where the mother said she never had the talk with her daughter. I will not even comment on how i feel about any of this, but what i want to say to everyone reading this is have THAT TALK to your kids, remind them even, and let them know it is NOT just strangers they need to be aware of. I know children/adults have the right to feel safe anywhere/everywhere let alone in there own home, but as we know the world just doesn't work like that. As a parent it is our responsibility to educate our kids. I am by no means saying this could of been avoided by a talk but it shocked me to read some still do not talk about things that are real and important and valid in today's society.

How you feel about this? Are you saying that you could actually make an excuse for this piece of garbage?? Actually her mother would not be able to have the talk with her because she didnt even live with her, let alone see her mother much, she lived with her father, this monster came in their home in the middle of the night and took Jessica out of her own bed, he must of drugged her, a talk would of never gave this girl a chance when she encountered this scum of the earth, and that what he is. I have never read a story that effected me so deep as Jessica's did. Being buried alive is one of the most horrible things, do you know she died clutching her stuffed animal??
I hope this man gets what he deserves ten folds in prison and while in hell.
Its time we start thinking about victims, and I dont give a rats bone what this man went through in his childhood to be able to do this to her. If I was given a baseball bat I would beat the living daylights out of him. Thats what needs to be done with him.

Hm, something just occurred to me, reading Daniella's post. Is it possible that those in favor of the Death Penalty tend to be those who believe in "something" after death? Because when you don't, life in prison sounds worse than death by far, and the true horror of the death penalty is the years spent waiting for the execution. I personally think that death in itself doesn't matter, it only does in realtion to what it interrupts. I don't see what good the death penalty can do to anyone, except by quenching an irrational thirst for revenge. But I guess it would make a little more sense if you believe the criminal will rot in hell, although, hell being eternal, what's the point of murdering the murderer a few years early?

Zoyd you said -QUOTE "Is it possible that those in favor of the Death Penalty tend to be those who believe in "something" after death? "

That is brilliant, I never even thought of it that way. That is why I believe in the death penalty (in this case Couey) - There are only (2) things I know in this world to be TRUE - 1. There is a GOD beyond any doubt 2. I can't hit a curve ball, that's why I work for a living

Zoyd, I liked your post - for me, it was right on the money...I learn something new everyday!

Glad I could help, golf:)
I am jealous of your two certainties, though. I know for sure there is no god, but I have no idea what a curve ball is...

against

Against it...I actually would go with Lise on this one - think executing someone just puts them out of their misery, but living and breathing behind bars without freedom or much of anything IS much more of a punishment.

Zoyd, a curveball is something in baseball. A pitcher can throw a baseball and have it curve at the batter(simplest explanation I can give ya)

As for the God thing, I'm not a bible thumper more of a very, very back slided christian. I was really fortunate to have him reveal himself to me by a sign -- this sign was no coicidence (sp) or accident. I know in my heart he exists, its a wonderful feeling my friend.

:) Take Care -- the curve ball thing is overrated in my opinion! Disgruntled ex-college baseball player! :)

I am very much in favor of the death penalty, in certain circumstances. If you you value someone else's life so little, why should society value yours? What makes you any more important than the victim whose life you took?

omg...golfpro, I would luv to hear about the sign you were given...

But, I know its off topic...

I'll tell you the story, don't want to waste peoples time posting and being off topic...And DO NOT want to debate Religion.

My email address is in my profile, email me and I will tell you my story. REMEMBER I am nooooo bible thumper - I have my opinion on that. :)

I agree, I'm not a bible pusher either however, I've also had an experience myself...just thought it was interesting...

But back on topic....I'm also against the DP...and theres no disrepect coming from me towards people who are for it....

Dani, the reason i will not comment is i am a survivor of childhood abuse and like many others my opinions are very tainted because of my own issues. I was NOT making any excuses nor would i and i know she was taken from her bed, thus the talk would not of helped like i said earlier. Where i was coming from was a very personal point. We need to educate and teach our kids. Like i said before Dani it is really a sad REAL part of this world we live in.

I am 100% oppossed to the death penalty, regardless of the circumstances. No one has the right to take a life, and that includes the government.

You know, something that no one ever really seems to think about when discussing the death penalty, are the families and loved ones of those sitting on death row. Imagine how it must feel to know that your child, your brother, your lover, your friend is going to be executed? I know how it feels. And I can't even begin to describe it to you. These people are somebody to someone.

I remember vividly listening to Laci Peterson's mother speak at a press conference shortly after her daughter's body was discovered. She said "No mother should ever have to think about how her child was murdered". I agree wholeheartedly. Neither should Mrs. Peterson. What did she ever do wrong, other than love her son unconditionally(which in my opinion is admirable)? Did she murder someone? Molest someone? Rape someone? No.

Even proponents have conceded that the death penalty does NOT deter crime, because people do not stop and think about the consequences to their actions beforehand.

And even though I find the fiscal argument obscene(simply because you can not place a monetary value on human life) it is actually cheaper to incarcerate a person for life than it is to execute them. For example in the state of Florida, it is 3.2 million versus $600,000. That money could be put towards crime prevention, and victim's support services. Instead, we use it to murder people.

I do believe that certain crimes warrant life without the possibility of parole(like in the case of David Westerfield for example). I think that being deprieved of your freedom, and stripped of your right to privacy, dignity and the ability to control your own life is a severe enough punishment don't you?

Eventually Mr. Westerfield(in my opinion) will have to answer to a higher power, and then God will decide what his ultimate punishment should be. However, I believe that God loves each and every one of us equally, that he views ALL human life as valuable, and that his capacity for forgiveness is beyond the scope of our human comprehension. So, can Mr. Westerfield be forgiven for his heinous crime? I believe he can, if he is truly remorseful for what he did.

There are a lot of people who have been victim's of violent crimes(including a man who lost his daughter in the Oklahoma City Bombing) that do not believe in the death penalty. Murder is murder, and it is always wrong except in the case of self-defense. Retibution is not a legitmate reason to take a life. As a society, we can not allow ourselves to be reduced to the level of the people we purport to be better than. It is inevitable. We become what we hate. And when I look in the mirror, I do not want to see Mr Westerfield looking back at me! Do you?

Thankfully in Canada we do not murder people, but if the death penalty were ever to be re-instated, and I were to be brutally murdered I would NOT want my killer executed. It would be bad enough that he took my life. I would NOT allow him to take my values. It would go against everything that I stood for, and believed in and fought for in life.

And one more thing. I do not believe that Scott Peterson should have gotten the death penalty. Here in Canada, the fetus is NOT considered a human being. Granting fetuses legal protection is dangerous, and threatens a woman's right to choose. Such legislation is just a covert attempt to have the fetus recognized as a "person" with full and equal rights under the law. Abortion opponents exploited Laci's death, by using it to further their political agenda, which is about oppressing women, not protecting human life. Ironically, studies have shown that many abortion opponents support the death penalty! Talk about hypocricy at its best.

And there are people who have committed far greater crimes than Mr. Peterson(serial killer's even) who have not received the death penalty. The fact that it is not applied fairly, is also a big problem.

Against the death penalty.

First of all, I don't believe in "an eye for an eye" situation. If murder is wrong, then how can you defend the death penalty?

Secondly, the American system is far from being perfect. When I was in the States a few weeks ago, I heard that when you murder a white person, you are 7 times more likely to get the death penalty, than when you kill a person from any other race. There is no equality when it comes to sentencing...

against death penalty. bookworm i was wondering if u would mind emailing me i have a question for you? my email is cmc_moderator(at)msn(dot)com thanx.