Just once again I hate the DP.
(only because some have asked me
on a PM)
Also I have a low opinion of anybody who
is Pro DP.
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i´m against it either, but i´m from europe and i think the majority here is against it & as europe being a pretty save place to live compared to others you can see it works very well without it. i wouldn´t say that i have a low opinion of those who are pro, but i definetly couldn´t understand, but when your raised in the us you may look towards it in a totally different way....
I am not totally against it because it has been proven that some people cannot be rehabilitated ie: Kenneth Alan McDuff (The Rose Bud Killer) or the chap who attacked Oklahoma, and many many more who's names escape me at this point in time, however i am of the firm belief that no execution should be carried out until it has been proven that the persons are 100% to blame for the offense and the Law of Parties, needs to be looked at, again this is just my own personal opinion which we are all entitled to have
I´m strictly against DP. Gerri you are right, some offenders can´t be rehabilitated, we too have such people in our prisons. I´m not against punishment and in certain cases is the safety of the society more important than the needs of such inmates. But it´s no real reason to do the same they did.
Good to see you around again Andreas (loving the Ramstein too ;) ).
I think the feelings in Europe very much depend on when you ask the population. If a major crime has recently been committed, then people are far more likely to say they are for the death penalty than during periods of quiet. It also depends on how you ask people. Openly, many people will say what they believe they "should" say, but in private at the voting booth they will say what they truely feel.
I am for the death penalty, just not in the way it is used in the majority of cases today.
yes...i´m with you andreas & by the way "servas as minga"(sorry, maybe not the right thread for jokes - i´ll spank myself for that)
back to topic: i guess no matter how cruel a crime was - it´s the wrong message to behave the same way or short: i don´t think that killing people is the right way to show killing people is wrong!
another point is the offenders family, why let an innocent wive, mother or whatever go through the same stuff the victims family has to go through. i think there´re is not much worse than watching your child, husband being killed - while others are yelling outside how great it is that he´s being executed.
furtheron - even if they always claim to be that way- i truely don´t believe that the victims familiy gets any kinda closure out of it....
I've never really had an opinion about the DP, I do enjoy listening to other people's reasoning though.I'm sorta undecided.
I am on the fence some cases i agree with it and some cases i don't:rolleyes1:
Although we do not have the death penalty here in Canada, I am for it, only under certain circumstances though. For individuals such as Robert Picton, Clifford Robert Olsen and Paul Bernardo it costs the tax payers upwards of 100k per year, per individual, to keep them alive in PC. I find that very offensive, and these are individuals who will never be able to be rehabilitated, their crimes are so heinous, in my opinion they do no deserve protection. House them in general population, and let them fight for their own lives every day.
A saying I like and have heard many times seems true here...you can read what you like into it. "Don't hate the players, Hate the game". Hate is a strong word I know, but so is death penalty and execution and serial killer and found innocent after ten years in prison...just sayin'...
I'm completely for it. Having to go to a parole hearing every 10 years to keep the monster that murdered my stepmom in prison is a brutal experience. Knowing that he's alive while she's dead just doesn't seem fair. I'm sorry, but if he was dead, at least my family and hers, would get closure. Instead of always wondering if he could possibly get out. Or worrying everytime you hear about a jail break, that maybe it possibly could be him. Sure, maybe some people are more forgiving than me, maybe they can look past the bad things that people do and forgive them. But once you murder for $20 and a beat up car, I stop looking at them as humans and more as monsters who don't deserve to live.
It's expensive and it's not a deterrent.
And how does KILLING people who KILL people make sense? It's like being a parent and saying, "Do as I say, not as I do."
Not to mention the fact that you don't even have to be the one pulling the trigger in order to be the one strapped to the chair in some states. In some states just by being INVOLVED you can be up for the death penalty.
People will say that these "savages" or monsters deserve it but think nothing of taking another human life just to get their own pound of flesh and it's B.S.
Are you sympathetic to serial killers who run around killing innocent children, women, adults, men, ect ect ect ect...?
i don´t think being against the dp necessarily means that you love murderers and don´t want to give them punishment at all! i think there´s something in between the dp & no punishment at all!! today in a "civilized" country ther should be some more options....
hmm This has always been a tricky subject. At least for me it has.
In a way, I don't believe that killing someone because they've killed someone else is "fair". But on the other hand, if it's someone that can never ever be rehabilitated or just someone that has committed heinous crimes (think serial killers, true psychopaths, child molesters etc) then yeah, I sorta agree with the DP. But mind you, as I said, it's a tricky subject.
The DP should only be reinforced on someone if it's been proven to a T that the person did the crime they're being accused of. Like YMI said, in some states you can get the chair for just being INVOLVED. Now THAT is wrong to me. That I don't agree with.
I don't believe in taking anyone's life, but I can understand that for the victims involved, that it would give some kind of closure. I fully understand that. i guess I'm neither against it nor for the DP. I'm right in between.
*shrugs*
Obviously not. It´s the task of the society to hunt, catch and punish those who did commit such crimes. And it´s the task of the society to safe its members. Must we be on the same low level to do this ? I guess we must not.
Thank you. It happened when I was 13 (so 15 years ago now) and it's amazing how I can remember every detail about it.
Being from TX Im sure you already know my thoughts on this :). I don't think that people who kill other people should be able to breathe the same air as me.
Lexi, I too am extrememly sorry to hear about your mother, glad you got the justice your family deserved!
Not true. Not ALL Texans are brainless....
**Disclaimer: This is a joke against a FRIEND of mine. No need for reprimands.
It was my stepmom actually, but thank you. It's funny because none of us feel as though justice was served. Sure, he was caught and is paying for what he did, but I feel the same as you do. I don't think he should be alive. I think what makes me most upset is that the guy tried to blame his ADD & antidepressant meds for killing her. He's never said he was sorry or seemed remorseful at all. So instead of being able to put this whole thing behind us, we have to deal with it every 10 years when he gets put up for parole. Sure, the chances of him getting out are slim, but the pain the my dad goes though every time he has to talk to the parole board kills me. For months before and after he walks around like a zombie, completely shutting everyone out.
Funny thing is, I was against the death penalty before this happened. It's funny how first hand experience really changes you mind on a subject.
I am definitely against DP. I don't like those "eye for an eye" things.
I am 100% against the death penalty for any reason. It is not a deterrent to crime and it does not bring back the loss of a loved one. Having said that, I have 100% sympathy for those who have lost loved ones at the hands of broken individuals and do not blame them for wishing "revenge" or pain upon the perpetrator. The best thing I could wish for them is the type of peace that may not include "forgiveness" for the crime, but enough healing so that the rest of their lives are not ruled by having the death of their perpetrator on their own conscience. People who are truly dp candidates, and... this gets tricky because it is a broken system that often is the judge of that... may very well deserve to never see the free world again and let's hope they don't. The killing of humans is the problem, from one end to the other.
Nope, I'm not open for debate. I was asked my opinon so I gave it. It's not going to change, nope, not even if was me that lost a loved one. Some spiritual practices do not include the acceptance of the death penalty. If it was me that lost a loved one, I imagine I might go through a period of "wishing death" upon my perpetrator, but I would hope that I could take back my life from living in pain, anger, and ruthlessness. That would be my goal.
Peanut, trying to compare a fetus in eutero and a man who has WILLINGLY MURDERED a human being are far from being comparable.
A baby is an innocent human being much like the victim that the convict murdered. The mother of the aborted fetus and the killer on death row are both the same in my eyes.
I think it's often the other way round, those who are pro-DP (especially in the US) are anti-abortion.
Without meaning any disrespect to lexgirl, that scenario is the exact reason why victims and their families should have no input into sentencing or parole decisions beyond giving an impact statement after the trial and before the sentence. It does no one any good to hang on to vegeance and hatred, and to become victims over and over again. There is a lot of talk about "closure" when a murderer is executed, but I have seen numerous accounts from those families who say they then experienced long periods of depression because there was no closure and they felt they had been misled by not only the prosecutors but the rest of society who had insisted that they would feel better in some way after the execution. The families of the victims are often used as pawns by those who would condemn many more to the chair or chamber.
And rarely do any DP supporters spare any thought for the families of the ones they would execute. Is the suffering of a mother of a murderer any less, simply because she gave birth to them (or in some cases adopted or simply stood in as a mother for them)? If your child killed, would you be so adamant that they too should die? It's easy to say you would be horrified and would disown them, but walk a mile in those mother's shoes before you really decide.
Points well made as it is the Republican Conservatives that are FOR the chair yet against abortion.
And the whole topic of abortion seems rather OFF TOPIC in this thread anyway. Should get back to topic now lest the thread end up [I]closed.[/I]
I often think about that. I'm a totally against DP. But wonder what I would think when I had first hand experience. I guess on this whole forum I am the one that's the softest at all. Complaining about the long setences in the States and such. But this forum also opened my eyes on some levels. Because it never happened close enough to me me to decide.
If somebody does something to my family for instance, like what happened to you.
Thank you for bringing that up. That you were against death penalty before.
And also ofcourse I'm sorry to hear what happened to you and your family.
I am one of them. I just read a complaint about being the offtopic when talking about abortion (and compare it) in this thread, so I won't elaborate, but if someone finds it interesting I'm willing to explain myself in another thread.
I'm sorry but comparing the DP to Abortion is like apples and pears.
As for abortion, you never know the reason why a woman would chose to have an abortion. Would think bad of a woman that was raped and was pregnant with her rapist's baby, if she decided to abort the baby? Would you deem her a killer too?
Come on, and yes, Abortion isn't the topic at hand here. So it is off topic. Since you're such a big advocate of not going off topic, I think it would be fair for you to practice what you preach.
Just MY honest opinion.
I would also like to state that I am neither against or for abortion.
I never suggested that you did. However, you're the one that brought up the whole abortion thing. Not me.
I'm merely saying it has noting to do with the DP subject. period.
But hey, do whatever you want, continue talking about it, You're the mod, not me.
I'm conflicted about this topic. In theory I'm very much against the DP because I think it's useless at best for everyone involved. But if anyone hurt my child I would probably kill whoever did it with my bare hands if the state wouldn't do it for me. A big double standard and I realize it a 100%. On the other hand, once I plug out my own personal feelings I also realize that whoever commits DP crimes will have to spend a lifetime in prison - one of the most horrific punishment I can imagine.
And when I think about the mother of the criminal, as a mother myself, I feel so badly for her too, having to watch her child in that situation. Yeah, I'm very conflicted but in theory I'm against it and I would probably vote against it based on "theory" but not personal feelings.
I think abortion is a relevant topic in the sense that those who are pro-life define a fetus differently than those who are pro-choice. That's why I can see why a pro-lifer sees these two topics as almost the same. Those who are pro-choice see it as irrelevant because they don't define a fetus as a living baby yet. That said, pro-life/pro-choice people will never agree because of this very definition.
I can honestly say that I have no idea what you meant by that. or am I just crazy?
I only meant to say that by putting DP and abortion in the same sentence we are now getting into opinions/discussions about ABORTION (see above) which are NOT relevant to the original poster's statement. But as QB said, you'll do what you like.
Now I'm willing to admit that sometimes off topics [I]seem[/I] rather relevant, it's just that it's ironic that if someone [I]else[/I] takes the thread off course, it's likely to get locked or deleted. Just my humble opinion.
Funny....I've only ever seen one person REQUEST that his thread be closed, usually after stirring up a hornet's nest and then not wanting to hear what came after it, but OK...I'll take your word for it that it happens more than I can see.
Ok, I shall try but it's hard with not havinbg so much words to chose from as a Dutchie who isn't that good in English.
I am against DP and pro abortion. And that's because I believe that a child should be raised in an environment where it's welcome and has the opportunity to develop as a healthy person. Ofcourse the 'what is the child is the product of a rape'-example is a clear one, but I also think for even less hard examples it's still the same. When someone is sure that she just can't take the role as a mother too well/ the child will be very sick/ it's a bad environment for the kid to be raised, she must have the choise to do that. Because when you abort a child, the kid is not that well developed that he/she can feel she's hurt or give meaning to it, there's no consciousness yet. Well... at least when it happens in an early stage (Does the Fetus Feel Pain? Summary of a Presentation given by Dr. Paul Ranalli on Pain, Fetal Development, and Partial-birth abortion). It's not possible (in Europe at least) to abort a fetus that's older than 12 weeks. But let's say the fetus HAS pain. Then still... I believe it's 'nothing' compared to the pain they may feel when they get raised in the circumstances the mother wanted to protect it for, like being not wanted/ sick/ very poor/ in a violent family etc. By then they will really suffer for a long time.
About DP: Like stated before by different people: You can't learn somebody not to do something and then punish them by doing the same to them. It's the same as hitting a child to punish him for hitting his sister. That's just plain stupid.
About the comparement: DP is decided by other people, by the state or whatsoever. They decide that they can take someones life. To make the society better, or to be an example for other people to show what happens when you commit a huge crime. These people who decide are complete strangers. When a mother decides for her fetus, she is responsable for that fetus, as a spokesman (??) because that fetus can't make it's own decisions, can't think yet, can't feel. It's to protect the fetus for a hard life. You can't just kill people when they are full conscious, have a family, have a life. And ok, they sure have to be punsihed for what they did. But to me DP is not the answer. Although we pay a lot of money for prisoners too, especially the ones that stay in whole life. But that's how society works, we have healthy people, sick people, weird people, criminal people, ugly people, pretty people etc. And how bitter it may seem, we have to take care of that as a whole. It's good for the ones who in some eyes deserve death penalty, that they get punished, get therapy and that freedom is taken. (Ok, I know I will get a lot of negative response on this. I'm prepared.)
I hope you all understand what I'm saying, whether you agree or not.
Now I didn't even mention the mistakes that are made very often, by killing unguilty people. And the families that are involved by the one who gets death penalty.
Yet again, I hope to never change my mind on this, but it can happen. I don't know what I will think when something happens close to me, like the stepmom mention in an earlier post. But I don't think it will change my mind. Although you can never say something like that untill it happens.