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A Warning In One Screenshot:

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Bread with crust
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A Warning In One Screenshot:

I’ll let the screenshot speak for itself.

Alternative working title, “Oops, the mask slipped” 

Watch out for these types, I will say, and choose your penpals doubly carefully. The best self is put forward in the ad, but what’s really there? Choose carefully, let your eye be discerning, and heed warning signs. Bore into “red flags.” 

(Also, very simply... sigh at the delusion of man. How it knows no bounds. Save us all.)

Kirsten
Kirsten's picture

Was that sent to you?

Bread with crust
Bread with crust's picture

Yes. This is his version of 'venting to a friend.'

Kirsten
Kirsten's picture

Ok. Would you like me to write out a response?This doesn't mean you'd have to send it to him, but I feel like I'd like to reply in Kirsten-ish.

And yes, he is "venting to a friend", in a way. I can kinda see that also through it all. I see what you mean, but I do see another side also.

Shall I give it a try? As said before, completely up to you what you do with it.
 

Bread with crust
Bread with crust's picture

Do feel free, Kirsten. I did not know what to say to this because I, personally, don’t believe, with this mindset, a person can necessarily be helped. It’s perspective, the way I see it, and they have to be willing to change theirs. At first (before the anger), it deeply saddened me to read this, because you think they are transforming, that they are getting that little bit better, and for some time they are, it seems, but then things like this. They fall back, they go back to what's easy. He is a Lifer, he has been in for nearly 11 years now, but he is still stuck here in this mentality and taking advantage of others. I do not know what it is to be in prison for life, even with parole (this I fully acknowledge), I do not know loss so great, but I know the power of perspective. Though it sounds very silly, in proportion, I know. 

At the end of the day I cannot bring him away from this kind of thinking. I believe he is headed for destruction, whether his own or someone else’s. 

ST4s
ST4s's picture

+1 to seeing the Kirsten-ish response.

Good LORD!!! The whole psyche-buttressed-by-materialism toxicity tells me this dude’s got some issues to sort out. If he’s defining his self-worth via things he can no longer have (a Range Rover, nice clothes, and so on) and then goes on to demean the “collective of (females) who I allow in my world when they don’t belong”, I’d say he’s got a long and miserable road ahead of him, by choice.

Kirsten
Kirsten's picture

It's not our job to change their thinking. Don't take HIS responsibility. ;-) Leave it to him.

Hi X,

getting your latest response made me sad and angry and I wanna tell you why.

You said you've been throwing away your standards and do you know what? You're right. I agree with you.

You're throwing away the standards of respect, of treating ppl in a fair, friendly and equal way. Those ppl on WAP are bitches? So what are you then? A King, a Beggar, both? A weepy child? A grown adult? What are you forcing me to deal with here and I'm asking myself: Is that worth my time? Because, don't forget, I contacted you via WAP also and I adamantly refuse being called & treated that way you did in that last Jpay by anyone, including you. YOU would be the first one to not tolerate disrespect, yet you trying to force me to tolerate this?

Who do you think I am? And who do you think you are in relation to this? I'll tell you what I'm not: A bitch, a trash or a doormat. You don't belong there? You deserve better? Great! Then do better! Then give the respect you demand for yourself. Give it, c'mon. If you know disrepect so well, I'm sure you're able to identify the opposite just as well.

So, you're deserving the big money, the fancy clothes and the fast cars? Got some news for you: You had them - and look what YOU made of it. YOU did what you did to get where you are, not any bitch or any WAPster or any CO. You know what? I don't give a damn to what clothes you wear or how much money you have or what you eat. But I do give a whole lot about who's inside these clothes and it inside so much what you put inside your mouth than what comes out of it that makes a difference.

Now make whatever you want of this but be assured that I'm not going to lower my standards when it comes to who I spend my time with and how I allow myself to be treated.

Sincerely,

me
 

Kirsten
Kirsten's picture

two corrections,no three:

1) begger not written with a capital b, of course

2) a trash bin (I forget to write bin)

3) ... and it isn't so much what you put into your mouth... 

Kirsten
Kirsten's picture

and sth. else to add (on a softer note)

P.S.: It's up to you what you're going to make of this, now. I know you're not gonna like what I said. But in my opinion friendship isn't about saying what someone wants to hear. So, if you want to stop writing, do. If you want to go into pouting and self-pity, do just as well. If you get over it on time, I might still be around afterwards, if not, well try in a next life.;-) And if you want to come back and we can talk the real talk and te real deal then that'll be okay, too. 

Just remember: I don't tolerate disespect, so don't waste neither my nor your time with it. 

 

Bread with crust
Bread with crust's picture

ST4s, it’s like, Do not talk to me. Don’t you know I drove a Range Rover? Kneel, peasant. You “bitches” and “females” can’t handle all this greatness. You are not worthy, I will run you over with my Range Rover in my fine raiment as I dine on the best of best nourishment behind the wheel.

 

Okay, now I’m LAUGHING OUT LOUD, Kirsten, at this first response. Genuine LOL because I was not expecting that at all from you! Oh my goodness.

Bread with crust
Bread with crust's picture

Now, but of course you are very right also.

Bread with crust
Bread with crust's picture

Wait, let me correct that:

*You are not worthy, I will run you over with my Range Rover in my fine raiment as I dine on the best of best fast food behind the wheel.

 

Kirsten
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@Bread: No idea what you had expected, but I've always been known to call a spade a spade.

It takes a while to get me to that point from where this answer was written, but, sorry, when someone's asking for it, s/he'll get it.

ST4s
ST4s's picture

Let’s see… what are the seven stages of grief? (in this case, Prisoner X’s for his lost “GR8NESS”) And after ten years he’s still stuck at stage one, anger and denial? Doing a little interpolation here, maybe he’ll come out the other side by 2070 or so, barring any epiphanies, of course.

And while I have nothing against Range Rovers, everyone knows the Germans make much better cars, (and denunciations to be lobbed at self-absorbed jerks like Prisoner X, it appears :-)

Kirsten
Kirsten's picture

two, St4s, one is usually : "this didn't happen." The acting on auto-pilot phase. Between hearing/seeing it and realizing it.

 He has every right to be angry, "without the storms there wouldn't be the beauty of the canyons", but he has no right to mock those who voluntarily reach out - and bein' confronted with arrogance I have no problem with a few sharp, but well-placed remarks, too

It's not my usual tone, but... asking for it "on the rocks" with ice is sth. I can do, too. If it helps breaking through the armor of a false self-protection like this, be it so.

The thing is to stay when the desperation beneath starts to bubble up. I wouldn't be astonished if there was severe depression going on, hiding beneath the arrogance, going as far as suicidal thoughts (see his closing remarks), but before one gets to address this, the ground to stand upon has to be clear.

He's not gonna be allowed to shove anyone around, but always welcomed back to a clear ground.

 

davey1800
davey1800's picture

That's a bit naughty to share a personal message, no matter how bad it was. 

VioletGrey
VioletGrey's picture

So much to unpack in a very short message. 
Bread is this correspondence normal for this pen pal? Or is this outta the blue type thing? Like is this a drop in the ocean, or is he at breaking point? 
For me, if this was regular and this mindset/perspective was consistent, then I would have trouble replying to this person at all. I get that we all have our own reasons for becoming pen pals to incarcerated people in the first place, but I wouldn't want to talk to someone who said those things in the free world, or in prison. 
I can see what Kirsten means about this type of behaviour masking some stuff that he's trying to shove deep down within himself and pretend isn't there (depression etc.) Either that or he is a true narcissist, and somehow you hold more weight in his mind that his other "bitches/peasants" for him to "reveal" his lovely thoughts to you. 
Also, woooo! Go Kirsten! I loved your reply, thoughtful, to the point, truthful and a good serve of reality, at least from an outsiders perspective. It also surprised me a little, not because I don't think you can write well (I think you write exceedingly well, and even more so that it's not your main language) it's because it took on a little more personal, casual tone than the one I typically read when I read your other posts. I'm not sure exactly how to describe it but it was a good read Kirsten. 
 
As for sharing personal correspondence, I think we're all grown up enough to decide whether we can or can't share things from our PPs. 

Bread with crust
Bread with crust's picture

This is becoming more normal now, and I think because other people are starting to see him or... really I don’t know what is with him lately. I know he had a girl he said he was talking to for months walk out on him recently (“I don’t know why, I did nothing wrong, why do people keep treating me like this”), and for all the world his family seems to be distancing themselves more these days, but even then IDK what this is lately. It’s not like any point I’ve seen him at before.

I am pretty certain he is the latter (a true blue narcissist), to a point where I am almost without any shadow of a doubt remaining. There is this now, and more besides, but I am especially remembering when he told me he used to think, when younger, that certain people around him were "dirty" and would not let them touch him or even his clothes. This when explaining how he got his old nickname. And I remember I tried to ask him if he was still that way now and he became angry and started talking about how he was abused by his family. (At the time I made an excuse/justification for that.)

Why he told me this also throws me. Sometimes he is very confusing, but I don’t at all believe he views me higher or apart from those he calls peasants and "bitches." Not for a moment. It would not be possible. I am sure he says similar when he gets angry at me too.

Oh man, but I know the whole situation is no good whatsoever and that I need to rid of it. 

Bread with crust
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Davey, what can I say to this?

Jeanne555
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Wow, just wow. I am actually speechless that someone can reply like that to their penpal. I love Kristen's reply, it's just spot on! I really hope that this guy will realize how wrong he is.

LotusBlossom
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It's interesting when people actually become self-aware of their behavior and what's gone wrong in their lives.  I've heard prison has a lot of people who could be classified as a narcissist and it's interesting that someone could get such a punishment like life in prison but still not understand they're not above the law.

I had an ex contact me out the blue, and it was a relationship a VERY long time ago, I'm talking almost 20 years, he apologized for treating me unwell and I honestly don't remember much of it, all I remember was he was constantly complaining about other people and what they did wrong in his eyes, and I remember it ending over whatever his drama was of the day, and moving on to have a good life.  I told him not to worry about it, it was so long ago and I had a good life with a successful career, nice home, good people in my life and was happy.  I told him I hoped he found happiness too, and he explained he had been divorced several times, never had a stable job, and ended up in and out of prison with several charges.  He never did anything criminal when we were young, he just was unhealthy, and thought he was better than everyone else.  It was nice he had an apology, even though I can't remember it all, but hopefully something in his life made him realize he was actually the problem, not other people.

I had a couple pen pals like that, that thought the world only existed to serve them, and it ended because I can't meet unreasonable demands, we're all only human.  But I did get an apology too from the Pen pal I had such a row with about him lying and scamming his Fiance for money and he said he started to realize his problem was he projected things onto other people when it was him who was the cause of all the suffering.  So that was interesting to hear.  While I doubt we'll ever chat again as friends, me and my former pp, or me and my ex, not out of grudges but just not the right timing to do so, I think some people destroy themselves to such a point they realize if they don't make a change, they're just going to keep running their train into the same wall over and over.  It's a cycle they have to figure out how to break.  Good for them for trying to get better, hopefully one day this man figures it out too and seeks help.

 

 

Bread with crust
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There have been infinite lessons here. I think the truth of the matter is, we all will have to answer to ourselves in time. There will be no getting around it because we cannot escape ourselves (even in attempts to escape the world, we can’t escape ourselves). I think he will not either. There will come a day or a better person or a bigger circumstance that’ll humble even men like this, and already this is pain. This view of the world, of people, of his counterpart (in women), this 'stage play,' it’s nothing short of pain. I know he feels it, must, even as he tells himself otherwise and even as he bends the world around him. 

Or maybe not.

Quote:
Good for them for trying to get better, hopefully one day this man figures it out too and seeks help.

But I hope for him too. It’s one thing that’s left to me.

Kirsten
Kirsten's picture

Quote:
Either that or he is a true narcissist,

That's not necessarily an either/or thing. Really not.

Narcissists who have what gives them their sense of grandeur fall into pieces, can (and often do!) develop serious depression and can (and also often do!) get suicidal. It's hard mix, but also very logical from a neutral point of view.

Imagine someone (anyone) with a very unstable sense of self-esteem, needing constant approval to keep a sort of balance - and even this is more than fragile. They depend on this approval like others on oxygen.the literally feel like they were "one big nothing" as I heard one patient once putting it. He literally needed approval to know he existed or was worth of existence. I know this sounds weird as they all want to convey the impression they're are center of the universe. But this deep insecurity of one's own existence is really just the other side of the coin/medal. And the less outer approval they get, the more they're giving it to themselves, making their behavior even more self-centered and apalling, getting less outward approval, needing more self -approval- a true vicious circle, really . And if EVER they come to a point where they can not approve of themselves, (it takes much, but can happen), they break. That's really the point when narcissists commit suicide, often in a way that's so spectacular it can't be overlooked. 

Many persons running amok (though not all) are what psychiatry calls "silent narcissists". They're not saying much, if anything at all, but deep down inside, they boil with hatred, anger and revenge over hurt , over "not getting what's naturally mine". These are ppl you'd never classify first, they're not bragging, they're quiet loners. NEVER underestimate the mix of narcissism and depression, as it can get explosive.Not to say destructive, this, of course, too. Which is why I'm kinda happy that this guy is coming out with his thoughts as he is at least giving signals.

the question is: can anybody read them? He's suffering, in his very own way and while no penpal could ease this, I'd try to stay in adialogue, if i could, albeit (I admit) a confronting one.

Bread, do what's best for yourself, but if you should feel the need for support trying to navigate through  this, feel free to hit me up.

*sigh* Time to hug a few ghosts again (that's an insiniuation to the story behind how I chose my email addy),

Kirsten

 

 

Bread with crust
Bread with crust's picture

I know this sounds wrong (because I of course understand everyone is human with the full complexity of human emotions, anyhow) and really quite ignorant, especially coming from yours truly, but I was only just thinking to myself along those lines. About how I couldn’t quite picture a narcissistic person coming to such a low point as to consider taking their own life (I was reflecting on your earlier comment, Kirsten). And in my mind, it’s chiefly because of how high above others they seem to place themselves, and how they seem to be so well-armored in their own... self-perception, that it makes it hard(er) to envision them getting there or allowing another person’s viewpoint (of them) or another person's actions (towards them) to truly bring them so low. It seems not quite like borderline in that way. But then, I suppose you’re saying it’s not so much that as maybe their feeling unrecognized or unappreciated, so sort of a feeling of ‘I might as well not exist if no one (not even myself) is going to recognize or appreciate me (or my greatness)' or 'if I'm not going to get the things I deserve and am owed out of life.'

And then when you have a narcissist in prison, with life imprisonment, especially... I absolutely get how that might bring them to this point of rock bottom, nothing-left-to-live-for more than anything too.

Of the cluster B personality disorders, narcissism, albeit the most widely talked about and recognized, still very much seems one of the most misunderstood. And it can be incredibly dangerous, in and of itself, when we do behave or get so hurt by their behavior as to forget to see the narcissist as human also.

Really thank you for your comment, Kirsten. This gives me more to think on. It's opened my eyes that much more, as I've been a little remiss.

Bread with crust
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But I don't mean that I'm going to start making any more excuses for his behavior. Not at all. I just truly had never considered any of what you shared in this latest comment.

Bread with crust
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I’ve taken the screenshot down, because it’s one thing to joke around on here, with you guys, but the more I think about leaving this up and being the reason my PP potentially becomes a laughing stock or momentary meme (I mean, it could happen) somewhere on the Internet (no matter how deserved for these comments), the more I do feel bad. Even though he acts this way and says these things. I feel I’m not being of good character now myself, making a spectacle out of it.

Kirsten
Kirsten's picture

Bread... acknowledging that ppl are suffering doesn't mean to make up excuses for their or disconnect from ourselves and our own feelings.

One can protect oneself (or kids or demential ppl) and understand that the person one has to protect onesself from is a suffering being.

To understand someone else's suffering doesn't allow him/her to hurt you further. It's no wildcard. 

 

Kirsten
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for their behavior
 

VioletGrey
VioletGrey's picture

Just because you can tolerate something doesn't mean you should. 

Bread with crust
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Wait, huh, why are you guys making these comments. Do I sound like I am making excuses or... something? Genuinely asking. 

VioletGrey
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I think you're going to make your own judgements on the situation, I don't worry for you Bread. Others that read this stuff might feel like they should stick around a person like this in the hope that they make some sort of break through. Like you said yourself, it's a warning, though the screenshot has not disappeared. 
Personally I'm not sticking around a narcissist long enough for them to create any type of attachment to me. I have seen first hand the damage that a narcissist (true or not, depressed or not) can have on a persons psyche and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. That's just me personally. I understand that everyone has their own tolerances and preferences when it comes to these types of things, and that if you feel you're aware enough to "befriend" a narcissist without being effected by it then that's up to you (collective). I really don't have a preference about what you (Bread)  do with your pen pal from here on out. I think you're able to devise your own action plan, and deal accordingly. 
As happens with these threads, often the more interesting part is a tangent to the main post. 

Bread with crust
Bread with crust's picture

I have been going crazy trying to figure out why that is still showing up on my screen too - the image is deleted on my Imgur account but this direct link is still linking to it, and I wondered if it was for others as well. Well. I think this is a sign from the universe, Violet. 

VioletGrey
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Just tried to look at it again, and it's now gone. 

Bread with crust
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Davey will be pleased, I think. I believe he might just be Santa, so we should get good things for Christmas this year.

davey1800
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We'll see ;)

Kirsten
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Now, for one: I can still see the screenshot when I click on the link.

Second: *sigh* No, I didn't mean you were making up excuses. Where did I write that? Sorry, that I seem to be unable to express myself clearly on this.

VioletGrey
VioletGrey's picture

Bread - did you ever reply to that particular message? 
I don't tend to like to pry between pen pals, that's bad etiquette, but did you find some words to send back? 

Bread with crust
Bread with crust's picture

Hi, Violet. No words. I have decided I am no longer going to hold court for his boy’s tantrums and fits (mistake this for no less). He cannot be met where is (not by me), and I know this about him now. It took a year and a half of trying to learn.

He is now, two days after, requesting my help in changing his dating profile bios to reflect something equally as obnoxious. Excerpt: "Too many people wish to enter my life in an attempt to make me happy in an environment that I don't belong in. Would you work to make someone you know or care about happy if they fell in a well full of shit? Keeping them there, uncomfortable and smelling like shit, just making them happy? So be careful in what your intentions are. Know I will respect you and will always be honest with you as long as you're the same with me."

"Know I will respect you"

Quote:
Know I will respect you
Bread with crust
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Know this, ladies.

Bread with crust
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Kirsten, there is neither a need to sigh nor apologize. I thought you were quite clear in meaning, I was simply unsure of myself.

Bread with crust
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Kirsten, there is neither a need to sigh nor apologize. I thought you were quite clear in meaning, I was simply unsure of myself.