I think we can all agree that it takes a very special type of person to go out of their way to help incarcerated people. It takes somebody full of altruism and compassion. And, as people who care about others so much, it can sometimes be very difficult to see ones we care about suffering so much.
So, when you think of your incarcerated loved one's situation, even if you don't intend to, how do you cope with thoughts about their situation? I think even people who say "It's not my problem" and such probably get these feelings if they truly care about the inmate. I have these feelings often, where I feel overwhelmed and depressed when I think about the situations of my pen pals. So, how do you cope with those feelings when they happen to you?
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Errr...not really. At least I don't consider myself some kind of benevolent being. I like MY PP and thats about it. I feel sorry for my pen pal as he went in so young and missed out his twenties. But, it was him that made bad choices not me so although I feel bad for him, I don't really have to live with anything.
To be honest I dont think like that either and the very last thing K would want is sympathy. He got himself in there so hes dealing with the punishment..that isnt being heartless thats reality.
A mutual friend once told me not to do the time with him as she did when her hubby was in and as soon as she stopped that she said it became easier on her.
I dont think living day in day out thinking about them and their situation helps and it def doesnt help them.
Dont get me wrong its sad that hes in there but I dont let it ruin my life thats for sure. Hes in there and he tells me hes happy know why? Because I take his mind off a whole lot of other stuff going on around him.
Well, it is very hard for me to cope with the situation of my penpal who's on DR..
And you know what blipsycat ? He's the one comforting me.
Now, for my comfort, we both decided that i need to forget where he is so i can be abble to communicate with him naturally.
He accepted his situation a long time ago, why should i be the one with a problem ?
I don't think I'm particularly altruistic or compassionate. Just about the same as the next person. Perhaps my career and life skills have taught me something about empathy, but for the most part my motivation in being prisoners' penpal is to fulfil my own need, and as the relationship develops, it becomes like a mutual admiration society.
I've never got to the point where I get overwhelmed or depressed. I get sad some times, and I have a little cry, and I usually get over that, with the penpal's help. I get angry sometimes, and I vent that by writing to the governor or the warden. Sometimes I shout at God for allowing injustice.
I think people would describe me as a caring person, but my own self image is not defined by what people think, or who I am in a relationship with. I define myself by what I know I am capable of achieving.
I dont feel the need to cope. When I wrote to a pp who was in ca and he was on the three strike - life with no help getting out, I found it difficult to keep an upbeat vibe sometimes. Yes that was difficult but I didnt feel I could not cope. Although it was a learning curve for me.
The others - all very much say look, I done what I did and I dont like it in here but I just get on with it the best I can. SO I go with their view and the vibe in the letters is always along those lines.
I don't have to "cope" with anything. I'm not sad whenever my PP pops into my head. Quite the opposite. He's on death row, but our letters aren't focused on his situation - we keep them funny & upbeat (with some seriousness thrown in for good measure).
Like Moxie, I'm not sad whenever my guys pop into my head. Sure, sometimes I get a bit sad that they aren't sitting next to me, having fun, laughing and what not. But things are the way they are. And honestly, if it weren't for the lady saying "this call is from an inmate at the DOC"... or the address saying "Penitentiary/Prison/Corrections".. I wouldn't even remember that they're in prison. We're not focused on all of that. Despite them being in prison and having their freedom taken away, I hardly think they are "suffering". Does their situation suck? Yes. Are they suffering oh so bad, being EXTREMELY mistreated like YOU(blipsy) like to portray things? No. In fact, they're the happiest bunch of guys I know. They cheer ME up most of the time. Just yesterday one of my guys emailed me telling me to "keep my head up. try and relax. Things will be alright".. When all *I* see is doom (concerning my own life, not theirs). Between my guys and me, I'm the depressed one, and not because of them and their situation either.
Ahh QB, Iv noticed your mood is on depressed and has been for a while? Whatever it is and wherever it may lead you I wish you all the best.
I see you like to have a joke and laugh on here so hope that this type of thing keeps you going to a certain extent. I have suffered with depression and anxiety the majority of my life, periods where I have been very low indeed. I dont even like thinking back to it now actually. I dont know though the older I get the better it seems to get, its still there but without the real knife edge so to speak. I really dont know why age should be a factor but it is for me. The downside..... im older -lol, oh dear you just cannot win.
I agree with the others. I have gained so much from the pen pal experience that I don't see myself as particularly altruistic or compassionate. Yes, neither of my pen pals want to be in prison but they both freely admit that they're responsible for their own actions. One of my pen pals is funny and is able to enjoy himself and I tease him that he acts like he's in summer camp. The other one's situation is harder but he's said numerous times that he's where he needs to be right now and he's taking positive steps in his life so he'll never go back to prison. We talk about so many things and I try not to focus on the prison thing. They can tell me anything they want about their experiences but I leave that up to them.
Yeah, it has been on that for a very long time indeed. I figured, why bother changing it? lol. But yeah, Been depressed since I was 10. Throw in some BPD and an entire list of other disorders, anxiety and phobia's, shake it up, and you have me :) I'm not psycho though :bigeyes: I'm actually pretty awesome:bigeyes: Oh and I have no problem being honest about all of this, I don't hide it from anyone. Indeed, all I hear is "it gets better when you're older"... OH,.. so.. I gotta age 10 years before It gets better? So I'll be feeling better but I'll be older? Great. LOL. Nah, I'm playin. But yeah, This whole waiting to age to feel better thing is wack. Yeah, despite my depression, I love a good laugh and I'm loads of fun to be around :)
:word:
Messed up somewhere with this...ugh!
Hahah - QB, I dont know about the age thing either- my mum still sais it to me at the age of 41 and I was about 9 or 10 when really bad anxiety set in and unfortuntley my son appears to have it also, nearly 10.
Oh well when I m 60 0dd I should be through it -- ????? and ill be saying to my son, dont worry you ll be fine as you get older and he ll be like 'oh shhhsh.'
I do know what you mean, although there is some truth to it. lol.
There will be the odd time where I read something in a pen pal's letter or email that hits me really in a bad way. I have a private sobbing session over it, pick myself up, and carry on with life.
My pals need me to be happy.
My pals need me to go out and do stuff so that I can then tell them about my adventures.
My pals need me to bring in the sunshine into their lives so that they can forget their surroundings.
I can't sit around constantly mulling over the things that they go through when I've got some free time between letters. I need to get out there and do things so that I'll have something else to tell them about when their next letter arrives in my box.
Yes, feel for them. Have a good cry over it if necessary. But don't let it run you into the ground! You need to be stronger than that. Your pal needs you to be stronger than that!!
You don't have to be "very" special to write inmates, just have an ability to think outside a very well defined box. To break down the barrier between us and them by writing a letter just takes a more open mind than the dominant paradigmn.
With your post, blipsy, there is a misguidedness about compassion- this: caring about the suffering (pain/difficulties/sad situations) of others doesn't mean we climb into the situation with them and feel it for them. It means we don't turn away in revulsion and fear. I have compasssion for your suffering means I can see you, hear you, be with you and I don't feel anger, shame, blame, or pain that is actually yours to feel, but I accept the reality of your situation and feelings. I have compassion for your suffering means I see you as a human being with pain and problems and I can be with you anyway. In the prison situation this can seem very special to do at times but it's the same compassion we could have for a friend or any person on the outside.
The compassion for the inmate is the same compassion for the harried waitress, the troubled child, etc.
Caring deeply, compassion, starts with the SELF first, always. It's not: I give up my self and my happiness because I care so much about your suffering. It's: since I care about your suffering, I will take care of myself in many ways as job one so that I have the strength, foresight, and ability to be with you in your pain. If you don't care about or take care of yourself emotionally first, you are like an empty tea pot trying to pour out for others. It can't work.
If you give that compassion to your SELF then you give a great gift and find it much easier to give that compassion to others but it doesn't mean you ARE them or that you making yourself negative or sad on their befhalf does anything whatsoever. The greatest gift you give is to be well inside yourself and compassionate beside another's suffering.
This really isn't altruism. It might be altruistic to wish for all people in prison to reverse their crime, never be in pain, never go through what they go through but that's not the same as having compassion for the situation that is the reality they find themselves in.
It was wrong for my pp to commit a murder at a young age, it would be altruistic of me to "wish" he had never done that... of course he and I and his whole family "wishes" he had never done that. It is compassionate to say "you did do that, and I can listen to you, befriend you anyway." The experience of prison is dehumanizing emotionally and so to have compassion for the human and not see the human solely as the crime is a real gift.
(I mean "suffering" here in a broad sense of the human condition... difficulty, separation from happiness, problems.) The subject of compassion is near and dear to my heart but it took me two years of study to truly understand these concepts the way I have even attempted to sketch here. Compassion is NOT: my self means nothing, I can't feel happiness because others suffer.
Don't take my word for it though. You may want to read The Heart of the Revolution, The Buddha's Radical Teachings on Forgiveness, Compassion, and Kindness by Noah Levine. It's all there.
I have a question, not directed to anyone in particular but to everyone in general.
When you write to your pen pal, are you focusing on their situation? Like, are you focusing on the fact that they're incarcerated or are you focusing on the person? I'm not necessarily asking if your letters are filled with the both of you discussing where he/she is - I also mean "is it on your mind when you write your letters?"
I'm just asking because I was thinking about this the other night, and this thread kind of brought it up in my head again. When I was writing my last letter to R, I was just thinking about how we never discuss in depth where he is. I mean, I'll pop out a question once in a while, and he'll tell me something about something that happened, but for the most part? Nothing is ever said. The only time he complains is when he's cracking jokes about the cold water in the showers. I was just wondering if I lucked up and got a happy, funny, amazing pen pal who just wants to "talk" and not harp on his life in there or if a lot of people are as lucky as I am. Because, really - if you spend your time doing nothing but complaining about life on the inside, are you even really getting to know who you're writing to?
With most pp's I talk about life, theirs and mine. But with the one I am the closest to, we have in depth talked about prison, his sentence, emotions, world because of prison PLUS about life, his and mine, beyond prison. I think I only went there with him because he was open to it and seemed to really want it, I wouldn't just assume all others want to go in depth like that. I mostly assume they want to write to me to take their minds off of where they are for a minute.
HI moxie,
well for me I have had different experiences. Iv never written to anyone on death row but the lifer wrote alot about their situation and how bad things can be - not in any real major depth but most def on the surface. Food, work, lockdown, legal stuff and just the fact he wanted out of their. He was also religious and to be honest that was really most of our conversation both ways. I did notice if I tried to lighten the mood and just talk in general - often there would be no comment on it at all in the ext letter. Well that can happen as you do forget alot of what is said especially when its not overly important. Thats why I found it very hard.
With the others they do not really talk about their situation at all really. Its much more up beat and so I would say those letters are more about the person and me as a person. One pp is due out in little under a year and so tlak about what to do next is a talking point but I would say on the whole its about the person.
My main pp really does not like talking about his situation inside. Sais that he does not want to worry me or say things that perhaps a woman shouldnot hear --- well I just take that as being polite for the sake of me. To be honest if it is really really awful I doubt I would be any help.
I hope iv answered the question - oops.
yes i think their situation is on my mind when I write but I also think anyones situation is on my mind when I talk or write to them. So I would say no more than the normal mindfulness when conversing.
In fact, concerning my "favorite" penpal, I focus on both, on the situation and on the person. First of all, he is moved every few months so we talk a lot about the new place, the trip to the new prison, if he knows people there, compare the prisons and the surroundings.. He really tells me a lot about it, so I can't avoid having his prison in my mind when I read his letters or when I reply, however we talk about many many other topics as well so we get to know each other quite well I think.
When we talk about other stuff I rarely have his situation in mind..
Except from when I think about what I could send him next.. For example, I asked him if he would like to have some sexy pics [B](NOT OF ME!!! lol)[/B] as he once had to get rid of those he had.. It is no problem for me to ask him that, and I didn't ask him because he is a man who likes sexy pics, first of all I asked him because he is a man [I]in prison[/I] you know.. So yeah, I think I focus on both, the person and the fact they're in prison.
Things will pop up in letters from my pals, like the inconsistent water temperature, or the routine nature of doing time. How days are filled with work that helps keep one occupid and out of the way of possible trouble. One was recently worried that his letters had not arrived because he did not make a habit of putting labels on his outgoing envelopes, and spoke of how "they take even the little thing away".
There is mention of prison life, but it is not neccessarily the main focus of any letters which either they or I write. I let them lead the way and follow whatever writing path they choose.
When I am writing each letter, I'm writing to that person and not to a prisoner ( if that makes any sense) - an absent friend. Yes, we talk about daily concerns, but we also talk about our pasts, our future hopes, kids, books, my annoying statistics class ...nothing is really off limits. And we encourage each other in whatever our present endeavors may be.
We talk about things other than prison, but it does come up sometimes--for it not to come up ever would almost be like ignoring the big pink elephant in the middle of the room. We talk it out and I listen with my full self open allowing them to bring me into their world for a moment as I try to bring them into mine when I'm discussing life outside, trying as best I can to bring the focus to the day they walk out (all mine will be). If I feel sad after the fact, I talk it out with a friend and think about the day I come to personally visit/hug them.
Nope, I don't really focus on their situation. Not when I'm writing my letters either. Like you, it really only comes up when they crack a joke about something in there. NJ will crack jokes about how he had something weird to eat that night or how they're some looney people at his prison, but that's about it. Thank god I'm not one to focus JUST on their situation, you know?
That makes perfect sense! I'm the same way.
I hope everyone doesn't think I was knocking on everyone when I asked that, because I wasn't. When I re-read what I wrote I cringed a little bit. I think it's natural to discuss their life. Like I said, R will write maybe a sentence or two then he's done and moves on. I don't ask him many questions since I pretty much already know what it's like where he is because of PP #1. Every now and then I'll ask, "Does ___ still happen?" or "Have they changed ___?" He'll answer directly but never elaborate. I told him something once about how I know he's got to have something he needs to vent out and if he ever wants to, I'm here. That's when he started to joke about the water. He said that he's not the type to complain & he doesn't want to "drag [me] into [his cell] and do the time." And I like it that way. Not that I'd roll my eyes and grunt if he ever wants to discuss all of that, but the fact that we don't harp on where he is or send long, depressing rants to each other makes it easier for me to know him for who he is, not some guy sitting on death row. And when I write to him, as when I wrote to PP #1, I will often "forget" where I'm writing to until I go to address the envelope.
I think the fact that he can crack jokes about the water temperature, the food and the people he's around makes it easier for me (I know, selfish, right?) to have a jovial discussion with him about everything.
Double.
:elefant:
I think you are getting to know the person if they talk about well a lot of things..He talks about it in there but he never whines or moans about it in depth I mean he will about the food or who has annoyed him but really thats it. He doesnt tell me things about even his cell he does about his cellie though. Iv asked him before and he says he doesnt want me to worry if he tells me the whole truth of things but if I ask a question he will answer it..Iv not asked.
You make a good point MB if you spend your time doing nothing but complaining about life on the inside are you even getting to know the person your writing to? Id say probably not but can we even listen to tales of woe every time we get a letter like wouldnt it get on your nerves after a while? maybe it wouldnt but theres only so much agreeing and sympathy you can give.
Nah, I don't think it's really THAT selfish. I can understand how it could be a bit awkward to talk about those things, so the fact that he jokes about it makes it easier. Not just for you, but for him as well. I tend to make jokes about stuff as well if it's an awkward subject, know what I meaaaaaaaaaaan?
I totally get you. I'm one who makes jokes about everything, especially the awkward stuff. Makes it easier.
Exactemundo.:yup:
Depends on the pal really. Some of them like to talk a lot about what's going on around them and what they're up to, so I can't help but respond to some of that in my letters too. BUT, while I might have asked a few questions in the beginning, I don't anymore, so whatever they tell me is strictly coming from them unless I've asked them to elaborate on something that they've already brought up. I prefer to write to the person, find out what their plans are, their hopes, dreams for the future, etc.
Good question Mox!
You guys have way more patience that I do. Anyway...
My letters are usually half about me and half about them. The "me" stuff is what they seem to want - stuff that is different to what they experience, that gives them something other than prison to talk about. The "them" stuff is whatever is going on with them at the time, could be about their families, their appeals, their work in the prison, anything that they have mentioned that I can engage with for conversation. Sometimes just acknowledging that they have said something, even if I can't offer anything else to the discussion.
My pals just happen to all be in prison. Over the years I've written to so many different people in different countries, usually their experiences are daily situations are very different to mine so it's no big deal to me exactly where my pals are, I'm interested in them.
And as others have said, my pals are not subjected to anything like tourtuous conditions, so I don't find myself feeling sorry for them particularly. You can have sympathy without completely trying to become the other person (or what you perceive them to be).
It happens that I forget were he is. But sometimes he does write, that i should never forget where he is. Still in prison and show some compassion and then he laugh his ass off:)))) They are in there for a reason, but in my eyes he is an angel and my tyran. I dont ask that much, it speaks for itself that it isnt a ball in there. But he has been there for a long while and say he is adjusted to it. he is more concerned about coming out 2013...we talk more about that then anything else
I have one pal who discusses his routine and what's going on with him at length and the stuff going on in there that drives him crazy. It really seems to help him to vent. I respond to what he's told me but don't ask a lot of questions. The other one seems to want to forget where he is and doesn't talk about prison a lot although recently he really opened up about how he felt when he first went to prison at a really young age. I try to focus on who they are and follow their lead on the subjects they want to discuss.
To answer Moxie's question: Yes, I definately think about them being in prison 24/7. The main reason I write to them is because they are in prison. I like them as people, but I never forget where they are. I think about them about pretty much every waking minute of my life, and it would be impossible for me to forget they are in prison.
However, despite the fact that I am always aware they are in prison, I try not to mention too much in the letters. I let them know they can vent to me whenever they want, and after a while, I might ask a question like "What's your routine" or something. I know not to ask about the abuse or anything like that, because the mail room people wound burn the letter if I did. Most of my pen pals talk about prison, though. They don't get into much detail, but they've all let me know a little about their prison and how much it depresses them. :(
No, you don't know this. Do you have physical proof of it happening, or is this just another of your wildly exaggerated assumptions? There are procedures for denying mail to inmates, and the DoCs gain nothing by destroying mail incoming or outgoing, because they know (and they really DO know) that they will get called up on it if it happens. Seriously, dude, these are modern prisons, not concentration camps from World War 2.
SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO CAUGHT OUT IN CONCENTRATION CAMP LIE - YouTube Prisons ARE modern concentration camps. And as time goes by, I guarentee you that the ONLY difference between concentration camps and "prisons" will be that prisons hold more than Jews.
I'm sorry, but what you've just written made me jump out of my skin !
This was concentration camp :
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2351[/ATTACH]
And this is an average American prison :
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2352[/ATTACH]
You should think before you post.. I know a few children of survivors of the Shoah. They wouldn't take very kindly to what you just said.
[QUOTE=Dunne;1033494]I'm sorry, but what you've just written made me jump out of my skin !
This was concentration camp :
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2351[/ATTACH]
And this is an average American prison :
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2352[/ATTACH]
You should think before you post.. I know a few children of survivors of the Shoah. They wouldn't take very kindly to what you just said.[/QUOTE]
If you watched the video I linked to, you would know that the people running prisons and jails themselves are saying they are concentration camps. They may not be as bad as concentration camps NOW, but the video clearly shows the people in power want them to be as bad. And considering hows jails and prisons are getting worse and worse, it seems like they are getting their wish.
Now, my friend, you really have drawn a very long bow, and it is encumbent upon me to call you on it.
Either you are ignorant of history, or you assume that your colleagues on this forum are ignorant of history.
The idea of the concentration camp was developed by the British during the Boer war, and then taken to the ultimate extreme by the national socialist party in Germany prior to, and during WWI. Their purpose was to contain and ultimately get rid of people who were inconvenient to the regime.
The difference between a prison and a concentration camp is that the folk incarcerated in concentration camps were innocent of any crime. Folk in prisons have been convicted (sometimes wrongly) or are charged with crimes, under due process.
To make an analogy between the two is to disrespect the millions of blameless Jews, Gypsies, Gays, Intellectually challenged, Afrikaaners, Slavs, Jehovah's Witnesses and Dissidents who suffered and died in concentration camps.
I call you on that, and say SHAME!
Plus, don't forget that once you ended up in a concentration camp, the only way out was through an oven chimney.
They made lamps with their skin, soap with their fat, hair brushes with their hair...
Man, you need to watch "Nacht und Nebel"... Than we can talk more seriously.
Even if prison IS a very bad place to be, it's NOTHING compared to a concentration camp.
Edited to add the wiki link :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_and_Fog_%28film%29
Errr... WHAT!? Comparing prisons vs concentration camps? Are you seriously out of your effin' mind?
You somehow have an extremely distorted view of reality, US penal systems in specific from what I can gather of your posts. Sorry for generalising perhaps, but yeah - not sure how else I'd get my point across.
I'm not even the one who started the comparison. Joe Arpaio, who RUNS a jail, openly admitted he runs it like a concentration camp. So, if you're going to get angry at somebody for comparing the two, get angry at him.
Phooey! We know mr Arpaio is an arsewipe.
We expect more from contributors to this forum.
Joe Arpaio has said that the reason he runs his jail like the way he does is to make the guys hate it and never come back.
You may have to work on understanding metaphors.
:beg:
Fair enough, and in a way I am. You do however endorse his statement ("Prisons ARE modern concentration camps. And as time goes by, I guarentee you that the ONLY difference between concentration camps and "prisons" will be that prisons hold more than Jews").
Fact of the matter is, Joe Arpaio obviously also hasn't a clue of what he's saying. If you even read up on a shred of history and concentration camps, compare that with modern day US prisons, you must see your point is moot.
Moot is putting mildly. The point is just plain wrong, and offensive to the martyrs.
Just when you think (hope) blipsy can't get any more ridiculous..........
Joe Arpaio also makes inmates wear pink and makes them sleep in tent so surely you cant say that it happens in all jails. HE might want to run HIS jail as a concentration camp that doesnt make it a generalisation for ALL jails. Blipsy you really must stop taking things out of context and applying it to the whole society.
Being german I wanted to give you an angry reply on that.
But you know what? You have disqualified yourself all alone with this comparison.
And I do not care who made that metaphor between prisons and concentration camps before because everyone who has at least a little bit of sanity and reason DID understand the metaphor made.