Hi everyone,
at the moment there are several lines of thought in my mind. One is a convo with my AZ pp (who connects and refers me with and to other inmates). He stated repeatedly that he knows a lot of ppl who would love a pp, but who either can't afford an ad or aren't used to talk about themselves.
Another thing I see is the long "needs mail list" on here and the many pplwho try to post here w/o paying (probably because of the lack of money), the many prisoner pp sites and facebook groups that offer free ads, but (according to some ppl who had ads there) rarely seem to bring the success they aim for.
Then I see the many family members posting for loved ones: My son/brother/cousin/uncle/father, etc. has an ad, but no one wrote him.
I see short and sparse bios that basically don't reveal much, least of all, who that person is (in a general sense, not meaning having to publish tge most intimate stuff in an ad).
I see ppl getting frustrated or disheartened, because they don't get any answers (that goes for inmates and ppl on the outside alike).
I see conflicts happen, I see hurt feelings and connections that sometimes fizzle out.
Yet, I also remember my AZ pp saying:" I got about 25 answers. I couldn't reply to everyone.I just don't have the $ for that and I can't ask a pp for $ to just be able to write to another one."
"So, what did you do with the info you didn't use?" - "Well, nothing. But it's sad, right? For these ppl were willing to write and others don't get any replies."
So, I'm just wondering out loud (also inspired by the standards and entitlement thread). I'm sure there might be ways to make more promising or fulfilling penpalhips/friendships than what some (many?) seem to be experiencing.
So, is there a way to help both parties? I know that dating sites pre-select, so do mentoring programmes of many kinds.
In fact, I've dedicted 6 years of my professional life to build up, work and train in mentoring programmes and mentoring is and has been a passion of mine for a long while. In fact, the older I get, the more i realize how many informal mentors I had in and during my life. I never was a mentee in any programme myself, nor did i ever officially mentor anyone. But in an informal way, it happened both ways and several times.
And I think (without doing it formally), there are or have been elements of mentoring in the relationships I built through writing. Not every letter, not every prisoner, not every time, no, but on some occassions,yes.
So, what I'm asking myself (and you if you're reading this). Would it be worthwhile and would you be willing to build up sth.like a network to ease pp matching and to reduce the amount of those that are on a "needs mail list" or don't get anything in a whole year? I have no concept in mind right now (not yet), I'm just thinking out loud.
Because doing sth. like that... it's not a task for one person alone and it takes many ppl with many different talents and skills.
I actually was (am?) a bit hesitant at first, for I think... browsing the ads and choosing someone to write is a process that has a magic of its own 8at least to me) and I don#t wanna disturb that. On the other hand, when I read that there are ppl trying for months without getting any resonance or without finding anything consistent (that goes for inmates and ppl on the outside alike) then I feel sad and I think that there's much time, money (these adscost, as we know) and potential wasted, that I feel like I'd wanna do sth. about it. Something substantial, sth.that makes a difference. And I know from working in these mentoring programmes that there ARE ways to conduct matching processes in a way that increase the chance for successful connections.
I also know a bit a bit about personality traits (social psychology been my major), the Myers- Briggs also isn't terra incognita for me (no, I'm NOT asking my pps to take the test when I write to them *lol*).
But if I were to start an "operation pp matchmaker" (only for those who'd like some assistance in choosing, of course) I need ppl to join me and tap along. (As I said, no concept yet, not even a draft just the idea. And I#m not even sure if it's a good one).
Willing to think along? To share your own thoughts, wisdom and expertise? Feedback and critic? Go ahead, I'm listening!
Kirsten
Last post
Ok, since the spammers use this thread also to bump it up; it might be time to give an update:
I have written a questionnare for both inmates and outmates, to try and get some reflection on expectations on penpalling and I'm willing to help with matching. BUT: As it goes, by now, I do have more interested inmates than outmates - and having nno magic wand I can't guarantee anything.
Plus, with my mother being longterm-ill and myself being on the verge of starting a new job (no home-office), I'll have far less time than the last 18 months to help ppl out and I do still have several pps of my own that I don't plan to stop writing just to get some pp matchmaking for others going. That would seem a wee bit unfair, wouldn't it? ;-)
Plus, another member of this community (who has the BIG advantage to be a native speaker of English, as opposed to myself) has started to compile a manual on how to write penpal ads that get read because they are a bit more outstanding than the average bio. She'll do her best to get the manual ready. But so far, the idea of penpal matchmaking is just the two of us, so we could use every pair of eyes, every brain and generally everyone who's willing to help those who receive no mail to change this status.
Any and all help and feedback and request (for the questionaires for example) welcome at ppmatchmaker [at] gmx.derel="nofollow"
Thanks,
Kirsten
Ok, being ill I couldn't make it last week.
Now, here's an offer: Friday:anything 6 PM or later, Saturday (anything later than 1 PM) or Tuesday next week 8 PM (this all being MEST= middle European summer time) Just for orientation: It's 6:43 PM here now - anyone in a different timezone convert to your own time,please. If I have your email and we can agree on a time slot in this thread, I'll send a zoom link for meeting then. my emailaddy for this is ppmatchmaker [at] gmx.derel="nofollow"
Kirsten
That's a good idea to have a Zoom meeting. I am available Tuesday all afternoon and Thursday I have a lunch appointment from 11.30 - 12.30. Other than that I'm free.
Evening works best for me. (About 8-10 pm)
Lovely work done, Carmen! Great structure that I couldn't have done any better.
As for connecting ppl, I'd be able and willing to do a zoom call next week with anyone willing. Tuesday or Thursday would be ok for me, I'm relatively free when it comes to the time on both days. Carmen and Maxi are in Europe as well, Mjuran isn't, but she has a similar time zone, I guess.
As for US friends, guess it might depend on when? Suggestions welcome.
Carmen, I love the structuring you've done with this, it makes it so much easier to chew on. Regarding approaching WAP by email...I would almost be tempted to ask them to simply read this whole thread...maybe they have been following it already? I also do agree it's time to restart a new thread to continue the same topic...
On a possibly related note, I've just been thinking hard about the possibility of also, in addition to possible "how-to" guides on wriing bios and intro letters, writing a detailed guide to writing and filing appeals, and locating free or low-cost legal aid for filings, as well as tips on relevant case law for various topics (juvenile LWOP constitutionality, DR cases, LWOP cases generally) and how to prepare various other supplementary filings like statements and post-release plans. It's something I'd like to explore doing as a project with my pen pal who's a self-taught certified paralegal and does legal work for other inmates as a side line. I'm sure he has a wealth of information that people could use to help or pass on to their loved ones and friends in prison. The problem is that is isn't anywhere easily available to read in one place, in a digestible form. That is what I'd like to try to provide, online, either through WAP, or...somehow.
Hi everyone, sorry for being a bit late on this thread since I also have some work commitments. I only sent an email out to Kirsten today.
I'm going to reiterate that I am in favor of a new site that doesn't exist yet. Considering all the issues mentioned, it would be good to enable people to create their own profiles (like on a regular dating site) that could then interact with the other prison penpal sites (WAP) for example.
The questionnaire as Carmen mentioned is quite important I think to build an "outmate" profile and it would help inmates and outmates to clarify questions they might not have thought about. This could then go as a flyer to the prisons and inmates could then write to a PO box and choose as well.
@ Carmen, I'm not sure about the size of the other sites? I haven't looked it up but some are quite big. Writeaprisoner has the best SEO and exists since 2001.It has also one of the better search bars. Inmate.Classifieds exists since 1996. Prisonpenpals prides itself to be the largest penpal site and exists since 1999.
The religious services offer on doing in some ways what Kirsten would like to do. Matchmaking penpals "randomly" without posting any profiles at all.
For my now recent second penpal that is in federal, and is part of those not getting many letters, and certainly has troubles keeping them, there is another problem: He grew up with learning disabilities. He can barely write a sentence correctly.
Just today I assisted at how he has been blocked (I'm pretty sure because of his troubles). These inmates are very lonely and can become aggressive..also they need writing help and it costs them more (as mjuran mentioned writing a profile is a job for certain inmates).
Maybe, we should add our ability to accept or not people with "speech or language impairments" ? Besides listing the crimes it could help if certain prisoners would like to enclose their "mental health status". It's difficult of course, but I imagine there might be more than one person in that case among the people with no letters.
Well, anyhow, for now...it all depends on WAP involvement. I don't feel a sense of urgency. There is time, these sites exist for 20 years..and if you want to decrease the list, some do it on fb...it's promo, promo, promo..
The algorithm might not function, there is no real way of knowing if the needs mail list is accurate. WAP is not promoting the profiles. From the information I gathered the return rate from WAP is low.
Because I really like structure, I've decided to make a list of things we might be able to start with. I have looked at all the solutions that were given and combined them with the problems that are mentioned in this thread. I propose to make a new thread, since this one has some other topics in it as well. That new thread has to start with Kirstens original post I think, because that is the heart and soul of this 'project'.
These are the 6 points Kirsten mentioned on Feb 1 and I've added some other points that are mentioned.
Possible solution: Making this a standard question for everyone wanting to write, before they start looking for a pp.
Possible solutions: Making a sort of questionare; interviewing people, asking them to fill in .. times the phrase: I am smart/tall/a huge sportsfan etc. Or: I am someone who likes…., someone who is proud of … etc. Making a brochure, flyer with useful pointers and examples.
Possible solutions: making a visual manual, which shows people what they should do on the website, where to navigate and so on, maybe with Powerpoint. Or make a self-help guide or booklet, made available by WAP.
Possible solutions: besides improving the bios and the introduction letter, WAP Profile Recommendations might be helpful. Also a ‘temporarily stop’ on adds from pps that get more mail than they can handle.
Possible solutions:
Ideas:
Possible solution: setting up a ‘Kiva’ like lending system, where a lot of outmates each lend a small amount of money to inmates, who can pay this back over a long period of time.
Possible solutions: writing an email or letter with some questions and ideas and an appeal for help/support/the possibility of working together.
Dear people, I hope we can come to a next step! Since I am aware that there are 3.300 pps that are on the needs mail-list, I have a sense of urgency.
Regarding the cost of ads (which appear to have just recently jumped up, then? Because a month ago I paid for an ad and it was still at the old rate of $50 for a year's ad subscription, and $40 to renew an existing ad for a year) I have an idea for WAP: eliminate the "email" forwarding feature that causes so much confusion, and is a big operating expense, and apply the money saved in paper and postage to NOT raising the cost of the ads for prisoners. Since they are the ones least able to afford ads in the first place, and that would be the easiest way to finance or underwrite the cost of the inmate profiles.
If you think about it, it's the inmate profiles that make the whole operation possible. Putting the cost of an ad even further out of the reach of an inmate who wants one, means fewer legit ads on the site and more people trying to post free ones. No one really benefits.
Hi everyone, I am just catching up on the last posts on this thread. I'm glad to see the enthusiasm going for this idea! After reading about all the other websites proliferating in apparent competition with WAP, I'm a little alarmed...I think WAP is the oldest and most reputable, best known prisoner pen pal site (this is just my impression from what I've picked up along the way) and it'd be a shame if a good thing like this site were to lose its following for lack of being able to make these improvements. It makes sense to me to try to bring these suggestions and concerns, to the WAP management directly, and see if it's possible to have some kind of collaborative effort with them. Though I have no idea how welcome it would be as an idea, to them.
I wanted to respond to Kirsten's mention of my pen pal who re-wrote his bio to such good effect :) He has had only one response so far, but he says he thinks that was from the earlier ad, as it was addressed to his old mailing address and had to be forwarded to him. I'm curious myself to see what the response to his second version profile will be, I'm really hoping he'll get a significantly higher response rate from it, but it it's still early days yet.
In terms of what has always been my personal area of inerest, the creative writing part, and helping someone tap in to how to express what they really want to say about themselves in a bio, it seems like a self-help guide or booklet that could be made available by WAP could be a way to go? I know there are, or were, some guides to writing a profile already on the WAP site. I should go look at them again, maybe they are better than I imagine. But somehow, whatever there is there now doesn't seem to be doing the trick, maybe it could be expanded and improved or distributed better? If prisoners are paying other prisoners to write their bios for them and that's a profitable gig, that surely says there's a need for something like that going unfilled?
Any news on the pp matchmaker project? Has someone any ideas on how we actually are going to get ahead?
I think making a list of questions for the WAP organization, finding out if they want to support us and get some more facts would be something that might be useful.
Maxi, do you have an idea how the other matchingsites function, how big they are and if we can use them somehow?
I don't know if it's better to communicate via email and not via this forum? I mean maybe there is a lot going on with ideas and so on, but maybe that is just not visible for me right now.
Anyway, I would love to do some more brainstorming on this subject...
Hi Maxi,
In regards to all the problems I would like to see if we can involve WAP. That's another reason why I would like to know what kind of organisation it is. I can only find information about the owner, all other information is either estimates or contradictioning each other. On Linked In I've found this information:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/writeaprisoner/about/
WriteAPrisoner.comPrison pen-pals, employment and housing opportunities for inmates upon release, self-help library, and so much more.
Non-profit Organization Management, Edgewater, Florida 227 followers Industry: Non-profit Organization Managemen Company size: 11-50 employees 3 on LinkedIn Includes members with current employer listed as WriteAPrisoner.com, including part-time roles. Headquarters: Edgewater, Florida Type: Privately Held In this profile it says: 'non profit organisation management', but on the homepage of WAP the owner says: "Critics of WriteAPrisoner.com will often point to the fact that we are a commercial endeavor. It is important to note that income allows us to do what we do. We have 160 work hours going into this site each week on mail processing, typing profiles and development. This is not volunteer work, and none of this would be here without income." So I find all of this a bit confusing. Anyway, I think it would be nice to Zoom and meet up. I am just not sure what we can discuss right now. I agree that it would be wonderful if we could make some steps toward a better matching system, maybe small steps, but every journey started with one small step!Carmen, in regards to problem number 3 it is good advice for WAP but that implies access to the site. (If Kirsten worked for WAP then it makes sense to not make another site but that is not what I understood).
Wow, you made a big list, I will check the 3 I had not seen so far
(I found out more about the number of listed employees = 2)
I got some feedback from my penpal, he also asked others..maybe we could get on a zoom call? I'm sending my info to Kirsten. Hope to see you, sounds like an exciting project and I think Kirsten's idea has potential.
Dear Kirsten, there is absolutely no need for apologies as far as I am concerned. But you are free to offer them of course. I am glad about all the support you had; in The Netherlands (where I live) we have a saying: shared sorrow is half sorrow. I think this saying matches your feelings. It sounds like your mom and all of you will be in this situation for another while and I hope you can keep accepting the love and support that is given to you.
The $ 65 is the fee that has to be paid to WAP for a years listing. https://writeaprisoner.com/inmate-new-listing To have your profile renewed costs $ 50.
You are right about the 25 adds per page. I looked at the 'needs mail' selection and there were 133 pages x25 + 3 profiles on the last page. That totals 3.328 inmates that are listed longer than 3 months, because that is the only criterion we know for certain right now.
I also looked how many prison pp websites there are, since Maxi mentioned that new one, and frankly, I was quite shocked by the amount! Here are some sites:
prisonpenpals.com
prisoninmates.com
meet-an-inmate.com
penacon.com
prisonpenpalldirectory.com
friendsbeyondthewall.com
inmate.com
lostvault.com
convictpenpals.com
prison-penpal.com
prisoninmatepenpal.com
wireofhope.com
cellpals.com
myinmatechat.com
This is without dating sites, such as 'women behind bars' 'love a prisoner' 'caged girls' and probably some more. But I think WAP is one of the best known and maybe the biggest one. I don't think it is a good idea to set up yet another website.
So I've been thinking about the 3 problems and these are my thoughts.
Problem 1: Money. I agree that it is not very likely that strangers will donate their money to inmates for fee and stamps. What I was thinking about, is a sort of Kiva lending system. Do you know Kiva ( www.kiva.org ) ? It is a brilliant way to support people, using micro financing. This is how it works: someone needs money to improve their shop, or pay tuition for college, or for buying a sewing machine for their tailor business. They lend the money from people all over the world and they pay off their debt in very small amounts. For instance, they could pay their $65 in 13 months or so. The loaners have to put in a minimum of $ 25, so a lot of people are capable of giving a loan. And what I think is the most amazing thing about this system, is that the money you loan, can be used over and over again. I've started with $ 25 and through time it became $ 100. And with this $ 100 I've been able to fund 37 loans! I really love this system, because those who need money, are not beggars. Kiva has US citizens asking for loans, so the infrastructure is there.
Problem 2: That's very doable indeed. I'm sure there are more people who can help with improving profiles. Do you have an idea how to proceed with this? Do you for instance want to look at the oldest profiles and make suggestions for improvements? But I must add that it bothers me that there's no way of checking that someone on the 'needs mail' list really needs mail.
Problem 3: One thought I have is that it could help if inmates who have received a lot of answers and are not willing and/or able of writing back, could put their add on 'hold', or could add a 'stop-for-now' in some way. I am suggesting this because of an experience I had myself. Last November I replied to an add from someone who had put an SOS out for pp. No, answer (although in the add he solemny swore to reply every letter he would get), so I wrote again to make sure my letter was not lost or anything. Still no reply. Then, last February I got a letter from an another inmate at that facility, who got my address from the inmate who posted the SOS. It turned out as I expected, the SOS inmate was sort of overflooded with letters and he skipped the ones coming from overseas, since he of course lacked the funds to buy all those expensive stamps. But, the SOS is still out there for another year and there are probably still people responding, who are getting no answer (although the SOS inmate may have set up a little PP shop by now hahaha).
I hope this is all somewhat helpful. I can ask my pp for his ideas, but it might take a while before I'll get his answer.
Carmen
Hi Kirsten, you really don't need to apologize for anything and the most important is that you and your family are doing better.
Carmen did an excellent job in breaking it down so it's easier to make the choices and even maybe a new site.
In regards to the new site that uses all the profiles from here...I couldn't find who owns it nor find what investment they have put into it to make the price 20 US a year. So, if they got approval from the prisoners they'll move to that one...
Some prisoners are on 3-4 different sites (it's quite the budget for them). I also heard that some pay other prisoners to write their profiles. That loneliness is quite exploited.
As for Writeaprisoner.inc, it has been registered in Florida in 2001, and apart from proof of filing, I couldn't find the numbers either. I think you can if you are based in the US though. It would be good to have an idea of the numbers and I'm sure that a non for profit could work as well but it still has a cost to put everything in place. I'll write more in a pm tomorrow.
I asked that new BOP penpal if he got a catalog or brochure. He said no, he even asked which pictures were on. He never saw what his profile looked like but he remembers writing it and having it on different sites. He also said they need to check for scam and catfishing alot.
I can ask my other penpal as well for feedback.
First off, my apologies to everyone. This last month was just rough for me. I'll not go into details, but my mother's health situation is more complicated than it seemed at the beginning and we're all adjusting to a new situation, a new normal. Whatever "normal" can be in that context and however long it will take.
I'm thankful for everyone in my life and my parents' life who has been offering help, giving help, lending a hand, lending an ear. That includes ppl we know "in real life" as well as ppl expressing their wishes here or via email and it also includes (not to forget ppl) incarcerated friends who made very clear just by their writing, that friendship with them is a two-way street.
It made and makes a different and it touches me more and deeper than I can verbally express. I've had moments this last months when I just sat there and cried. I just couldn't do anything else sometimes. But every time, every single time, there was something happening, someone calling or someone writing to just remind me that we (as a family, but also we in bigger contexts, as human beings) aren't alone. And that's been a tremendous teaching, tremendous consolation and not just for me.
What suffered, though, was the action in this project. I'm not much further then I was, so, all I can say is "Sorry." But when I came up with this idea, I had no clue of what was coming.
I still love the idea and I would like to continue, but I really need help to get it going. I can't shoulder this alone. Not now. Couldn't have done it all alone when it came to my mind, but even less now. I need you guys to get that going, if we want this idea to be born!
@ Taurus: I'll write you.
@ Maxi: Good input, thank you!. Maybe we might talk about it further? I've got no clue no fundraising at all. Though making money has not been my main goal (still isn't) with it, but yeah,I simply can't put more than a certain amount of time (and money) into it. There are possibilities as well as limitations, both to be taken into consideration carefully.
I didn't know about the other site, but let's be honest: What kind of a person do you have to be to just copy an idea and sell it as your own, just cheaper, but using the profiles from the site you try to oust? For real, what kind of behavior is this? Neither very creative, nor especially impressing (to me, at least).
@Carmen: Good questions. Let me give answers to the stuff I know:
No idea about WAP's success rate. I think it also may vary (age groups, but also crimes, as I think, sex offenders get less mail, for example).
Yes, there is a brochure for prisoners, or at least there was one, but I'll have to search for the link. I know I've seen one but that was 2 yrs ago or so.
Can't tell you at the moment. But there used to be (before that terrible so called update which eroded user friendliness, by taking away the search bar, the PM possibility, the edit button and other useful features) a number of pages. Like when you did an "advanced search" with "gender. male" & "needs mail: yes" as options you'd get all the ads. There was a certain number per page (25, if I remember correctly), so one could easily calculate it. Back then, when I looked, there were between 1200 and 1800 inmates with little or no mail, depending on how broad or narrow you switched the search criteria. I often reversed the order i.e. added from "first to last" because I wanted to see ppl first who had really been waiting for a long while.
3 months w/o mail through the "email feature" , yes. How accurate this list is, I don't know. What I do know is, when I wrote someone a letter from the list and he responded, I emailed WAP about it, so he was taken off (not the site, but the "needs mail" list). Don't know if oters did or do it likewise.
I thought it's 50 per year? Where does the 65 come from?
About the 3 problems you (correctly, I think) broke it down to:
1) I don't see how to fund the money for getting an ad. Plus, to be honest, I don't think that this is a task for a penpal. Not that I would not send a prepaid stamp (or a little sth. here and there, for birthdays, Christmas, passing the GED exam or sth. like that). But I don't see that a stranger should go and fund a person he or she doesn't know o be able to get an ad on here.
2) That's definitely doable! Mjuran did it for someone and I knew the profile before and the profile thereafter. Whole LOT of a difference! Awesome work done there! Not sure if he got mail thereafter, but I'd suppose he did. Mjuran should know this, I guess.
3) That's what personally bothers me the most. It just hurts me to know that there are so many ppl just craving for ppl to talk to. While I can't walk in their shoes, I still know what loneliness is (sometimes even in a crowd of ppl, at least for me). And on the other hand there are so many ppl on the outside who are..., well... imprisoned as well. Mentally perhaps,physically perhaps. Frankly, I think, loneliness is a pandemic, too. But there's no vaccine for that one. Just ppl for ppl (o, sometimes animals, too,but we're talking of penpals, here.) So, for me, the 3rd one is the most hurting one. But the 2nd one is the one I have a doable thought about. For... what can you do about loneliness? Just connect one person at a time. And that's a sea of unmet needs, an almost insurmountable task. But... one has to start somewhere, right?
Reading through the thread, best of luck to those who take on the project, that is a nice thing to do
Hi Kirsten, Violet has been so kind (as always) to direct me to your link.
I just read about your mom being in the hospital. I am very sorry and I hope things have turned for the better.
I read the initial post and I think it's a great idea.
So now, let’s see what the problems are (quoting you from your initial post).
If I further analyze this, it seems like there are 3 mayor problems:
I think it would be helpful to have more information. Like:
But, to be honest, I don’t think there is much information available.
Is there any of the 3 problems I’ve found that you feel is more urgent or maybe even more fun to try to solve? Because it might be easier and more manageable to start with one problem. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.
I wish you and your family all the best and especially for your mom!
Hi Kirsten,
First of all I’m grateful I recently came back to this site to explore the forums. I think I joined about a year ago, had some help from reading through the forums, wrote to one penpal and we still have a great penpalship but I left this site cause it really isn’t user friendly. I remember I even looked up if the owners were still active when I figured Kirsten wasn’t the admin although she is doing all the work with a few others to keep this site going. If I remember well I’ve seen Kirsten, Violet Grey, Mjuran, St4 maybe? already last year patiently re-answering the redundant questions, again and again…Kudos to you all for your work and kindness. Now there are some new and interesting people on here (hello Taurus, farfromhome, etc) bringing up interesting topics and it got me somewhat hooked. I still need to answer on that pp boundery subject.
2nd – I think Kirsten, you have a great idea, and I skimmed through all the posts real quick. I’m willing to support that kind of idea and certainly believe – think start-up or non profit association but I think you will need some funding (I can help with finding that).
On my end I have been wondering about the startup perspective since I have a start up myself offering digital services for horse and pet owners and I kinda looked at biz models surrounding the prison system altogether. I learned a lot. It’s either all on the inmate or on their families and way more expensive in the US then here in Belgium for example.
Recently an AI powered new site has been launched called https://www.prison-penpal.com/ and been pretty heavily promoted.
Promotion was on facebook, twitter, instagram and since I left a comment on one of the profiles, this is how I’ve been contacted via mail to now write a 2nd penpal that’s on here too and does not appear in the list of those who don’t get much mail. He really wants letters. If it is ok I’d link his profile ( and want to let you know that he most probably had help with writing his own profile!).
Most of the profiles on that new site were taken from this site (WAP) but membership is promoted at 20 a year instead of 50 on here (if my memory is correct).
Pigeonly is another one that offers mailing services (not match making though) and pigeonly is a legit start-up with some serious funding.
Inmate.com is the site I use to send messages to my penpal as they are offering the service every week (contrary to this one).
Well, I will write you an email and hopefully, we can think of something. My idea is to start a new site altogether. I can also help with that but not for free all the time. I can also open a company in the US if needed but I think and believe you ought to think big :-) and then doing small steps with the people willing to help should work out.
Just throwing it out there, in case,…there is time and all my best wishes to you and your family situation.
I hope this is still going well for your Kirsten. Is there an update you could give us perhaps?
ppmatchmaker [at] gmx.derel="nofollow"
Been a hell of a week, sorry, talking to my father, my aunt, my mother when possible and some doctors in-between. It's safe for the moment (i.e. not life-threatening), but... that's not over yet. Probably there will be surgery as soon as non- life saving surgeries are being done again, which are put on hold due to the pandemic.
Anyways, thanks for everyone's patience and kind words (St4s, Ni-na.. thanks! :-) ) and @ Taurus and @Nightdragon. Sorry, it's ppmatcher @
Read y'all later,
Kirsten
(I ended up using penpalmatchmaker @ etc.)
Kirsten, when your head is clear again and you've had a moment to breathe— I am having trouble emailing you also. I don't know if the one I sent went through after all, but GMail informed me that it was an incomplete delivery and I received an error code from looks like your side/email server. I was told that the GMail server would try again for 46 more hours so maybe it went through after all. If so, I am glad, take your time. If not, I'm not sure what is happening there.
I created an email address under my name here, so wap taurus istj (at) gmail, if you end up having to email me first.
I will say, one thing that confused me, is I am not sure if it is penpal matchmaker @ etc or pp matchmaker @ etc for you? You have given the address as either/or on separate occassions.
More sorry. I was too tired and to worried to think clearly. my mother's at the hospital right now (no Covid, though) and my thoughts were distracted:
It's ppmatchmaker @ etc. Sorry, I'm a bit offkey atm. My concentrati,on isn't as focused as it ought to have been. Maybe later.
K
sorry, I missed a space between the x and the point, obviously. ;-) But,otherwise it did work, as I do get mail with it. nonetheless, gonna send you a few lines.
@Kirsten, that doesn't work. I got that your address doesn't exist. May I ask you to write to me gmx n i g h t d r a g o n @ g m x . a t ? Thx!
Melissa, would you be willing to hit me up via email? If yes, I'd suggest you two or three profiles. ;-) See emailaddy one post above.
Ok, that's a lot now.
First: @ Rob, you can get at me any time. p e n p a l m a t c h m a k e r @ g m x. d e Just leave the spaces out. And guys, I have 9 nine unresponded emails right now, so if it takes me a few days, bear with. But I read them and will react, but a thorough answer does take time. And I rather take my time instead of saying sth. just to have said sth.
And I'm not saying this to keep mail from coming in, but to make clear where I stand.
@ Taurus: I LOVED that text! You spoke at least in part, what I myself thought likewise often, at least in a similar frame. And doing puzzles is one of my most relaxing and joyful hobbies since I was 3 yrs old or so, so that metaphor is more than fitting, in my case it's a bull's eye! And that resonance you spoke of is another reason why I enjoy(ed) these discusions with you as well. Plus the contrast of the things you can communicate and those which are incommunicable, yeah, exactly. You're speaking some stuff that I've always felt myself. It's that resonance and it does (for me at least) not happen every other day. Not in that way, at least. So, you fearing to be intrusive towards me, is understandable, yet nonsensical.
If I would not want to be known thoroughly by you, I assure you, you'd be the first to know. So, let's see if we can put this puzzle together. Maybe after a lifetime we can connect the dots or for the very least, understand the blueprint. Oh, and in case I wasn't clear enough: that's an invitation! So, please, bring these puzzling puzzle parts around - and come in to patiently put them together. Let's just see how far we get can with such an endeavour. (We're both complex, but I think, we both know).
@Mjuran: I saw your pps updated profile (been updated yesterday or so) and : Hey, wow! Great piece of work! I knew the old version, but hey, no comparison. None. If he doesn't get any mail with THAT profile, I'm gonna eat my hat! Could you do this for other prisoners, too? Please? Channel your inner editor, Ma'am! because now, with this profile, after reading it I had the feeling of at least knowing what kind of person he is. Personally, I still won't write him, it's not quite my cup of tea, but it's a damn good intro!
Hi all, Hi Kristen.
beside my requerst to contact you, some replies to your initial post and those i've read on so far.
First it would be greatt idea to create community willing to help inmates to find a pp. But also the other way around. I also think it's a great idea to provie a flyer or "Dos and Don'ts" for providing an ad here. One would also need to take care that WPA is already a well known place to find people and write to them, whatever a design and feature rework would be highly recommanded. Talking as a product manager I can say that a better design and webpage could increase the success for both, inmates and pp outside.
But whatever you are up to do I would like to support you. e.g. I can provide the technical infracture to run webservices for free (mailserver, webserver, databases, etc... - do my own hosting, have a nerdy powerful network connection, but I'm not highly redudant - whatever it should be enough to start a network). I'm just not a webdesigner and so not great in generating content, etc...
So whatever you are to do, I'm hear and would love to support - even if it's only by donating money to the idea.
BR,
Rob
@Kristen, would you mind me getting directly in touch with you? It seems you are from Germany and as I'm from Austria, situation writing an inmate (regarding time of reply, etc...) are similar. Just let me know if, when, where and how (email, telegram, Threema...).
Thx Rob
Regarding #1) What is your understanding of boundaries? Is there anything specific you'd like to have in common?
I guess just respecting me for who I am, nothing really specific.
Regarding # 4) What is"regularly"? Once a month, once a week, daily? And what kind of humor do you like?
I’m happy to communicate daily or weekly, whatever they prefer.
I think you mentoring your age on the other thread, so I have that. Do you have acertain age range (plus/minus)?
I usually reach out to people who are in their 20s-30s, I don’t really have a specific age range. I’m happy to reach out to people who are older than that age range, but it’s just more of a preference to speak to someone who is a similar age to me. That’s not to say I would hesitate to reach out to someone older, I’ve already been looking at a couple of people lifers and on death row I want to reach out to who are 40+
Would you like to males, female, transgender or none-binary ppl or doesn't it matter to you at all?
I've only ever reached out to males so far, but I'm not against reaching out to anyone else. It doesn't bother me :)
Thank you, Kirsten. (And I truly do struggle with articulation.) Although, you misunderstand me in that one part. I wasn't clear, I think. I did not mean that it seemed it would be intrusive unto me (as in you would be intruding on me), but intrusive unto you. Which I know does not seem rational, but I am just, well, shy (among other things), though I know it may not all the time seem or look like it.
Quote: I get "too much" for many and it often leaves me saddened. It's as if you see an utterly beautiful scenery and a lot of connections and details, but when you wanna share that with others, many will just turn to you saying: "There isn't anything."
Oh yes. Depending on who the others are. You know, I had a former penpal who would say similar to me. He was not a prison penpal, only a regular penpal. I kept all of the emails because the talks left a deep impression on me. If you don't mind sharing (I don't mind sharing these), I am curious whether you relate to any of this (just me in the purple on that one)? (Are the images clear?) But otherwise, oh yes, I do relate.
mentioning your age... my goodness, sorry
Hi Melissa,
thanks for your kind words and for filling out the survey.
Now, let me see if I may get a picture...
Regarding #1) What is your understanding of boundaries? Is there anything specific you'd like to have in common?
Regarding # 4) What is"regularly"? Once a month, once a week, daily? And what kind of humor do you like?
I think you mentoring your age on the other thread, so I have that. Do you have acertain age range (plus/minus)?
Would you like to males, female, transgender or none-binary ppl or doesn't it matter to you at all?
Read you later,
Kirsten
Ok, I'll make two answers here.
First one goes to Taurus.
Hi there,
first of all, thanks for writing this. It makes a few things clearer to me (some not, but never mind, I think I got the gist of it, at least).
I think, a lot of that "signalling" is not always easy to understand, because it is interpretation for the most part. Which is ok in itself, but I know that at least my own interpretations (and pevrhaps also the signals I give) are, well... influenced. Sometimes by cultural stuff (I do notice sometimes that there are differences between America and Germany), sometimes by my own experiences, which may lead to (pre)-assumptions that have an effect on how I see things or ppl or relate to them.
Maybe I don't sometimes get (your) signals as they were meant or vice versa.I doubt, though,that I would've wanted these discussion between you and me to drop, but that might be signal misunderstandings on either side or whatever.
As for you not being articulate, sorry, I had to read this several times to even start believing it, because, hey, if YOU aren't articulate, who the heck is? I'm not joking, I mean it, especially considering your age. (No, I don't want to discriminate, not even positively, but in all honesty. You HAVE a way of articulating yourself that is beyond your years. Which is one of the reason that made me enjoy these discussions. And I know (from firsthand experience as well as talking to others) that this "beyond your years" comes with a price. It comes with life experiences others of that age didn't have to face. And while I don't know exactly what yours were (and no, I'm not asking, not even indirectly) I know mine and I know that mch of what makes me being me is due to that old things which I'vev mostly (not all, still not) outgrown. So maybe it was that (at least in part) which made me recognize a few patterns or trying to reach out to you by engaging in these discussions. And maybe what I had been hoping for was also to make paying the price for that kind of "wisdom" a bit easier. I know how it was for me and I try to ease it for others when I can. But if you find intrusive what was meant as a friendly offer, that's ok, too. I can maintain distance and I can let ppl suffer and learn to pay the price for wisdom/life experience the hard way. It's not my natural inclination to do so, but, alright. I just hope you won't (get) hurt and bleed too much more.
As for searching for the right words... oh, I guess, there ain't anyone who knows how much I understand this. Better don't ask how often I end up with asking myself whether the phrase /word I chose really conveys what I'd like to express. Especially since my perception of ppl as a synasthetic (who I've always been) is a multi-layered and very colorful one.
But, also like you, I polarize ppl. I get "too much" for many and it often leaves me saddened. It's as if you see an utterly beautiful scenery and a lot of connections and details, but when you wanna share that with others,many will just turn to you saying: "There isn't anything." But the key is to trust your perceptions. For you, as an ISTJ it means to trust your senses. For me, as an INTP it means to trust my intuition. Not to make them sacrosanct, but to trust them.
I wish you nothing but luck in outgrowing and outhealing what you went through to pay for the life experience, wisdom and articulation you DO possess
Kirsten
Hi Kirsten!
This is a great idea! Can I just say how amazing you are too. I'm always reading these forums and you're so active on here responding to people, I'm always interested in reading what you have to say. Thanks for being you!
1) If you choose a pp, what do you think or feel is important to make it a rewarding experience (for you/ your potential pp/ both of you?)
Having a mutual understanding of boundaries, sharing things in common, having a great connection with the person I’m talking to and knowing it has the potential to grow into a great friendship.
2) What (for you) is a must in a successful pp relationship?
Trust and understanding.
3) What (for you) is a no-go in a successful pp relationship?
Someone who is racist, anti-LGBTQ+ etc. I would prefer to converse with someone who believes in equality for all and doesn’t have any hatred towards particular groups of people. I wouldn’t be friends with someone who has that mentality outside of that situation so I expect the same in this case. Someone who is abusive, lies, two faced, manipulative and has a history of domestic abuse/rape/sex offences/trafficking, I don’t want to communicate with anyone who I wouldn’t be able to stop thinking about the crime that they’ve committed and fear for my safety either. There are just some crimes that I can’t ignore.
4) If you had a perfect pp relationship, what would it be like and how would you know it was a perfect fit for you? (Now I know, there ain't no such thing as a perfect relationship, but be bold! It's not about perfectionism, it's about the features that would make you noticing it).
Someone who is funny and we share a similar sense of humour (this is huge), who wants to talk regularly and takes interest in my life and what I want to do, just as I would with them. Who feels comfortable sharing their stories and someone who I can develop a great connection with that I look forward to writing to.
5) If you asked/requested assistance, what would you wish to get help for?
Would you like to converse via electronic messaging?
Would you like to phone?
Are you willing to give your address?
Would you
a) be willing to get profile suggestions (based on the answers you give) and choose from these? (Yes)
b) be matched based on the answers you give? (blind letter-writing) (yes)
Kirsten
This is going to be hard for me to explain also. I don't know if it will make sense or if I am answering everything for you here.
Very often I feel to have an initial "burst" of a thing (or things) I want to say, but once the burst is over or it has been said, "it" (something? momentum, perhaps, I can't be sure) will start to fizzle and leave me with a deep sense of, "Huh, well, what do I say now?" "How do I keep this going?" "Should I keep this going?" (I can have trouble knowing when and where to respond and when and where to, well, not, because maybe a person is signaling with a certain comment that they want the discussion to wrap up or for us to agree to disagree, I will think.) There's also a struggle, for me, with being articulate. I will have (and have had) thoughts in my head about a thing or two said in those discussions you refer to, that I start and then tend unceremoniously to vanish from, but arranging those seemingly always convoluted thoughts into coherent, structured sentences, words, outside of my own head, will start to feel quite the challenge. And I'm always very, very, very, very, very aware of how I put things into words, of my own writing. The amount of times I read over, and over, and over, and fine-tooth-comb any and everything I type or write, you'd probably find head-scratching or disconcerting. (Or, maybe not.) Sometimes it is not like this, sometimes I could go on about a certain topic. Like... In the Prison Contraband thread (most recent example), if you viewed it. I could have kept going there, I had things more I wanted to discuss, but I felt the polite thing to do was to give it a rest. And I also myself kind of have that other voice sometimes in the back of my head like, "Maybe be quiet. Maybe no one wants to hear that."
But it was never an "I don't want to talk to them" "I don't like that, I'm not going to respond" "Hmph! I find that too personal, I'm not going to respond now" sort of thing at all.
Although, yeah, I guess sometimes it does feel like a lot of attention also (if it's more personal). I suppose I do try to keep in mind that it’s a public forum.
And I don't know, the emailing thing just struck me as kind of... intrusive? A lot more personal than if there were a private message function on here, anyhow. That's why I never did.
I also get the sense that I make certain people uncomfortable. (I always have been polarizing, actually.) Which is, of course, understandable. So I try to be mindful of that, of who those people might be, and maintain a little more distance.
Thanks for letting me know, Taurus. Take your time, I'm glad you say sth. at all, as I was unsure how what I wrote did come across and I wanted to say how it looks to me wihout hurting you at the same time, which looked like a bit of a tricky endeavour. So, I'm glad for this reaction.
As you may or may not know, I think, with knowing that you're giving it some thought I can wait patiently.
I am sitting on this one, Kirsten, but have not forgotten about it. I wanted to add a quick note that I'm going to come back to this thread, as I didn't want you to be left wondering or in suspense.
Buckingham Palace, me? *lmao* The only thing that's true about this, is that I once had an English teacher at school who lived in Oxford for quite a while and certainly taught more of a British English. And I grew up with an aunt teaching both English and German in middle schools. That helped, too, as I could always ask her grammar stuff or some vocabulary when needed. But for the rest: Stop flattering me, ST4s. And your German's fine. Forget about the correct use of the articles. Having just "the" in English,I can see how confusing it must be.
But it's cool you didn't seem to have noticed how nervous I was when we talked first - or maybe you were just kind enough to not mention it. ;-)
@ Taurus: It's not easy to explain, but I'll try.
Well, what comes to my mind when I think about this are several threads where we (you and I) got into a discussion. For myself I can honestly say, I enjoyed these discussions, found them stimulating and thought provoking.
Despite of that, there always came a point when the exchange - for me in some threads abruptly- stopped. And I've been wondering why.
Was it that you didn't like the exchange? (I got the expression you did, why would you engage in it otherwise?)
Was it too personal /too private? If so, you could easily have emailed me, as emailaddress access had been given by me on several threads.
Was it that you don't want to discuss certain topics, either at all, or, with me? You've got the perfect right to do so. But if that was the case, why would the discussing together then happen again on another thread later?
i mean, if it was about me, that wouldn't happen, would it? You simply wouldn't respond to threads of mine, then. Or I to threads made by you, for that matter.
But as it is, it feels like a contradiction and sometimes confusing to me: Like 1) Oh, that's intersting, I want to get in contact,let's see what can develop/emerge out of this.
and
2) Ah, no, that get's too close, too deep, though that depth at least (maybe not the ckoseness, then?) is wanted.
But maybe that's it. Maybe for me there's no such thing as a form for "depth combined with distance". Maybe it's just me combining depth (of talk) with a certain kind of closeness, whereas that exchange or the closeness might be sought to be only at an intellectual level?
Unless (perhaps? perhaps not?) being explicitly invited?
But when I come into a room and there are several ppl in, I can go there with an inner assumption that I'm with them (as i share that room with them) and through the category of space (here. the room) belong to them as long as I'm sharing that space (here. the room) with them.
Or I might go there with the assumption that being there with them isn't enough (i.e. sharing space is not sufficient) that I have to do or be sth. to belong there (to share with them)
Or I might go there and prefer to be and stay distant, like the observer who sees a lot because s/he is not (or less) involved emotionally. Like stepping back ad seeing the metaperspective instead of the finer drawn details that I recognize only when I get near enough to the painting 8or tapestry or whatever.)
All these ways to go in and position myself will influence my interactions with the others in that room. And while there's no wrong or right nor a perfect distance or ckloseness for and with anyone (that changes as well with the way interactions go.maybe I like someone and take a step closer, maybe I dislike what someone's saying and take a step back).
But perhaps my mistake was to correlate intellectual stimulation and depth with closeness. Maybe there is or can be intellectual depth/ closeness without any other one?
Kirsten, puhleeease! Your English is 10,000x better than my German. And when we’ve been on the phone, you strike me as British Royalty, like, wait! Am I on the line with Buckingham Palace or something?!?
I’m curious to know why you do feel that way. What gives you that impression of me?
*lol+ Tarus. ;-)
Where the room for improvement lies? Well, for one in my language skills (don't let my writing fool you, I've got a terrible accent and am more awkward in speaking foreign languages than in reading or writing9, but,most of all, in the situation of many prisoners listed on this site (and elsewhere) not having a penpal and in many ppl wanting to be pps not finding a suitable one.
And more generallyspeaking: There's always room for improvement and personal growth, I guess. At least for myself I'd not claim that I've yet become the full me. And that includes everything, not just an idealized version. Potential in itself encompasses both, therefore I always get a bit of an "oops", when ppl say they wanna live their "full potential". I rather would not. ;-) for, I wouldn't wanna be nor do everything I might potentially be capable to do.
As for the invitation: Would you please at some time tell me what I can or might do (or write, respectively) to make clear that i was and am always interested in your PoVs and perspective? Why does it seem (to me) as if you wouldn't know that you are included when I invite ppl to think out loud, or when I ask for feedback or when I wanna try sth.new and wish to be able to look at it from different angles and "collect" different perspectives?
Is it so hard to believe that you're being naturally included?
(Kirsten, where is room for improvement?...! But, of course. I appreciate your invitation. Insert gif)
As I said,I'm not convinced at all that a manual would help, for I'm unsure it would be read (or looked at, for that matter, though chances might be higher). I'm unexperienced at creating visual material the way you described, I did work with Power point, but actually never liked it (neither creating them nor having to watch them and listen to ppl doing their presentations with it).
As for the language, well, right. But several ppl joining, emailing or commenting are native speakers, so, this is my least concern. ;-) Besides, Taurus, please feel free to correct me anytime. Always willing to learn and to improve my skills. And please feel invited (not coaxed, forced or anything) to further contribute your own pevrspective of a "critical friend" in any way you deem appropriate.
sounds good Kirsten!
Hm. Re: the manual, I think it might be more efficient to go the way of making it a visual manual, at least - a manual providing visual examples. Not only a whole bunch of text, but something which visually shows people what to do, where to go, how to practice reading comprehension and take more initiative for some of our English natives (sorry, I tease on that last). More like a PowerPoint, perhaps. Or something utilizing a screen recorder of yourself or one of the people you will work with navigating the site (while recording your screen), or you could simply take (highlighted) screenshots, too. Now, I do think it a lot of work for possibly not much gain—Sisyphean, if you will—but who am I to say. If that's what you all want to do for the newbies, hey, go to it.
Does seem you are taking on a lot, so I do wish you luck in your endeavors. You and all who are helping.
Just to give those who are interested an update: I received emails from several ppl, including two male lurkers who never posted on here or did just post once.
There were also two females who are new and had questions and someone who reflected with me on a certain penpal situation, but who preferred to do so privately instead of a public thread on the forums.
I did give some advice to the newbies (though this was mostly stuff anyone could find or do on here, nonetheless welcome). The lurkers who sent me the survey in got some suggestions from the needs mail list who they might write based on their given criteria.
One of them said he wrote a letter to one of these, so we'll see. ;-)
We did some conversing on writing in general and with one of the guys there happened a dialogue on re-entry.We're both interested in it, but being a foreigner, I can't be of as much help in that regard as I'd like. There someone living in the US might be more helpful and knowledgeable than myself, though, I am, of course, willing to lend a hand if I can. It's just that my knowledge about rules in certain states, etc. is definitely limited. Maybe this is going to change with time and experience.
Everyone I spoke with via email expressed that they would like to come back and discuss stuff if there is anything and one person explicitly stated that it is a lot easier to cover certain topics in an one- on-one asetting and that it is a pity that the forums doesn't hold these available anymore. To respond to that, there used to be both a search bar and a private msg. function, but they were taken away by the "update" in the summer of 2018.
Now, I think about it going on in different directions: one is really to kind of distribute that little questionnaire a bit further, another idea would be to develop a corresponding or similar one for inmates (which might be supported by help in (re)-writing bios in a way that reflects who they are and tell a little more about them in a general sense.
Others thoughts coming up are really offering to talk either one on one or in a smaller circle of likeminded ppl, but not as public as the forums are and the thought of whether (and if so, how) to really offer a penpal mentoring, i.e.guidance in a longer process for a longer period of time (like six months or a year). I could also do some coaching (I do have an official German systemic coach and life coach license).
But if I think about things like that, it is clear that this couldn't be done fully for free.
Another thing mentioned were both sex offenders and veterans.
Regarding sex offenders I personally wouldn't exclude them, but I definitely can not and will not offer sex offender's treatment.
Regarding veterans: I do know a thing or two regarding PTSD, yes, and I've got no problem writing with someone suffering from it, but I see no online treatment options for that, at least none I could provide.
So, these last few days took some thinking and I really can't do everything that might be helpful or needed.
What I see is
I could probably also try and find ways to do this as a social start-up (though I originally did not have that in mind, but I'm starting to think a little bigger).
But those were the topics stated and are my momentary thoughts about it. Any input very welcome.
I think one next step might be Carmen's suggestion of a WAP manual and a questionnaire for inmates, the latter corresponding to the draft I put on here?
Kirsten
Lol, the old nickname was blocked for some stupid reason, but I don't mind people using it. Everything is fine on my side of the pond, I'm an essential worker so have been working throughout the pandemic and various lockdowns/curfews, and the pp's are doing fine as well. I'll send you an email over the weekend, I'm not overly experienced with making websites but I'm willing to help with what I do know.