Most of us already know all of this and need no lesson but it makes me kinda sad to hear it straight from a guy in prison like I did today:
My pp told me that a friend of his in there has a bunch of people that he writes to and uses for money. He doesn't care about any of them, uses them for what he can get, laughs about it, makes fun of them. My pp was very dismayed with him and asked him "How can you do that? Don't you have any feelings for people?" His answer: "No."
I said... that's all gonna come back to him. That's the sad part. Also, my pp told me that a gay man wrote him a letter and though he's not interested in writing back to him, he kept the letter, told this friend about it. The using guy asked for the letter, as in, give it to me, I'm sure I can squeeze something out of him. Real sweet.:gagme: Of course my pp didn't give it to him but just... wow. It's nothing new, we already know, it's just really stark when you hear it that upfront.
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I guess I have just been really lucky in my choices , as none of my pen pals expect anything from me other than friendship.
Although of a generous nature, I am not gullible. Merely a genuine seeker of the good to be found in people. So it saddens me that this friend of your penpal is so callous and unkind...I feat karma will one day bite him in the asterisk,
And it is sad that this person is so damaged that he can not see past his immediate wants of cash and manipulation.
Sadly this happens in all walks of life and those behind bars are no different to the rest of society. There are plently of people who would scam you for a few dollars. It happens a lot, even to the very best of people who have nothing but good intentions. You do not have to be gullible, but i honestly think you also cannot be scammed if you are willing to give, and you do, then does it really matter the why's? Some of our greatest lessons in life come through other people.
I saw for my own eye's how guys play the game, getting "their" girl to bring in supplies. I have to ask myself what these people tell themselves to make it ok to take contriband into the prison, it is one thing for a DOC worker to be paid to do it, but a mate....... If your man/woman really loved you, he would not ask you to do such things and as for the "if you love me you would do it" BS, that is all it is.......BS!! I especially do not like it when the young girls get manipulated and caught up in the lies. Seriosly it is crazy to me how some risk their jobs, freedom and much more than being scammed a few pennies.
I think many people have not only given up on themselves, but people in general and therfore they do not care fullstop, about anyone or thing. It is easy to speak up and out on how many men and women they write and who sends what to there books. There will always be those people who are dishonest for self gain, but then you find other friends, even behind the walls who ask nothing more then friendship, spending more than their daily wage to write you. When i think about that it puts things into perspective and my smile is wide.
Each of us is different. If we were all just the same this world would be much more tedious. Unfortunately, there are many people like the guy described by gooddog. And not only behind bars, but also on the outside - all around us. We must learn to live with it. It's sad, but this should not affect our approaches to the other people. Personally, I do not like talking on the phone or via e-mail because I do not see the other person. I am not able to see the other person's reactions, behavior. Things that are important during face to face contact. For then I know what are the intentions of another person. Without this, it's hard to assess.
my pps tell me such kind of stories too...also about one inmate who married a women from Canada and that this guy also just uses her for money etc.
thank god my pps are different ;)
It really is sad....Iv heard those stories too. Theres one actually going on right now and there are a few guys saying that they are gay and arent...kinda the same thing that was happening in Kentucky I think it was.
I have heard about this too from my PP. It really is sad when someone has no regards for another's feelings even if you didn't know that person yet. It's just morally wrong! Those users give a bad name to other inmates who are genuinely seeking nothing but friendship/ relationship/ companionship.
It is a bit shocking when you hear about it from someone inside who see's it firsthand. All I can say is it will take me another year or two before I'll know for sure whether or not my two are in it for good reasons. They've never asked me for anything and while I feel that I know them relatively well, I also look at the situation for what it is. I only know what they tell me and they only know what I tell them. I feel like limiting myself to thinking "oh mine are different" might lead me into wearing rose colored glasses, this is a situation one should always be aware can pop up should someones motives change.
I actually just spoke with R about the whole inmates having their significant others bring in contraband, and he said himself he would never 'risk me' or 'any other friend or family' like that and doesn't understand how some do. He said usually when he asks how they do that or why they do that the guys will usually just say something like "oh I've got to get mine." It's disheartening but hey, it's prison. Can't say I expected these guys to be angels.
It's true. We know as much as we tell ourselves. It's like in real life. I can only speak for myself, but I think that the presence of such barriers - I know as much as you tell me, you know as much as you learn from me - it's completely normal and natural thing. Probably a little walk away from the topic, but I think - and again I speak only for myself - that such barriers are part of our everyday relationships. It may even help in making friends, because thanks to them we seem more interesting and mysterious. Because we do not know everything about the other person, we try to get to know this person better. We want to discover the different layers of the personality of that person. In the case of prison pen pals, it is even more noticeable. For me it is an integral part of relationship with them. Some of us, like myself, living abroad. We may never meet our pen pals, but often we identify ourselves with them, live their lives. Sometimes we feel as if we were in prison with them. And this lack of knowledge, seems to be quite interesting. Lets you create a picture of a person on the other side of the page. Unfortunately, these barriers also allow for various types of undesirable behavior of our pen pals. It's sad, but there is little we can do with this.
That's really sad :( I know they aren't all like that but I also have heard stories like that before. Sometimes people don't see 'the red flags' and sometimes the person might just be a really good con artist. Either way I'm a big believer in karma and while I never wish bad things on to someone I dont know, I just hope what he does people comes back to him
I guess the only way to find out if a pp is going to use you is to not send $ or supplies, and then see what happens!
I'm new here so I probably have limited credibility, but just for comparison's sake, google "workplace psycopath". People who don't give one cheek of a rat's behind for anyone else are everywhere, they're most certainly not all in jail and looking for penpals. I work in an environment that attracts these type of people (often but certainly not always men) and some of them are the nicest, most charming, superficially friendly people, people who are actually pretty fun to hang out with. Just expect them to put themselves first and you nowhere if they consider the situation requires that choice. I do (and I know this will seem like I'm having a crack at people who've been scammed but I'm seriously not) think we are all responsible for taking good care of ourselves though. Not blaming the victim, its very very easy to get sucked in when you want to see the best in people soooo badly, but if it smells funny, stay away from it!
It is this attitude that was part of getting him where he is today. People in bad situations adopt all kinds of convenient denials for their behavior. His treatment of others with a genuine desire to help him is what is going to keep him exactly where he is. The worst part? If you told him that, he would never believe you.
Okay, old thread revival, sorry to anyone who hates that, but, I like your thoughts here.
Though I would love (*in some reality that I inhabit all by myself, ha ha!*) to sit down and explain "karma" to a guy like this... it's not ever gonna happen. People are sowing their seeds, and we cannot "help" them, direct them, or any of that. I have learned (the hard way) not to try so hard with people and see them where they're at and say "so be it" if that's where they're at. Just make sure I don't follow them anywhere if it's not the path I want to be on.
The ONLY way people can change is if they want to.
All I know is that what we want to refer to as karma is inescapable, and so I tread lightly because of it. None of us are consequence free, but there are degrees to which you are going to experiencing suffering and mess, directly proportionate to what you put out in the world. Word.
2 of my penpals have told me that 90% of the people they know with a penpal are doing it to "get what they can" from their freeworld penpals.
And as one penpal said to me....can you blame them? And honestly, I can't. If someone is willing to help you out and give you things and make your life easier...as someone locked in a cage...why wouldn't you try for that? Most of us aren't writing middle class men of privilege. They're guys who grew up on the streets needing one hustle or another to keep alive. People need to keep in mind the background of the person they're writing.
Obviously you hope for the best and want your penpals to be operating on the up and up but if you're giving endlessly to your prisoner penpal...I think you have to ask yourself what is broken within you that is making you feel compelled to do that. There is a hugely valuable lesson to be learned from being screwed over...whether it's a freeworld boyfriend/girlfriend taking advantage of you...or a prison penpal/romance.
We set the precedent with our penpals. And have to draw the line on things. I have a penpal that is almost always on lockdown so I send books and magazines and things frequently (every couple of months) and I suggested he make me a list so that I could send things he actually wanted. I expected a list of 5 to 10 things...and I received a list of 70 items. Why wouldn't he shoot for the stars? Of course he should..it's a free pass to get things he wants. But it's up to me to only send what I'm able. So 10 years from now when he's received the final item from the list...I will request a new list. hah
WORD. 'Tis true. Being offended at being asked gets dicey, especially on HOW It is that you are asked, "Want to be my rape fantasy" on letter one doesn't go over as well as offering to send a magazine and being sent a longish list, lol!
What I don't like is when any of this getting or asking is done behind an intentional mask of romance. To me, that's just cruel and I could never condone that as a way to get what you need in life.
Funnily, I've used that rape fantasy example with a couple of my penpals and they've both been horrified someone would do that HAHAHA So...now we lovingly joke about it being a matter of time before the rape fantasy gets broken out. (and yes I know rape is no joking matter..so no one fire bomb me for my flippant remark)
Oh agreed! The lure of love to someone who might be lonely is a sick thing to do. I didn't get the impression that is what "most" (per my penpals) were doing so my comment was more to the non romantic side of things. But I'm definitely not supportive of trying to get what you can get at any cost...more so just the ones who have the balls to ask outright or play the poor me...it's hard in here for a criminal....card.
I know this is a year old thread...but the other thread about any famous inmates in here and that one asks for donations to reply... and I noticed recently there's another fairly famous inmate up on here also asking for donations. Wow...I'm kinda surprised it's these well known ones asking for donations since I'd think they are already pretty well off. What's up with that? And here I write to very poor or indigent inmates who have never asked me for anything, I guess for the ones that get forgotten about a friendship means more to them.
I know. Pity the fool who gets the rare rape fantasy letter. How'd I manage to get in line for that one???? I'm just glad I didn't let THAT deter me from wap once and for all, or else I would have missed out on some good stuff.
I also think it's rarer for this asking and being taken care of thing to come under the form of "I love you baby, you are the most amazing woman in the world" and much more common, as you say, to just be straight up asking, which, also as you say, can you blame them? (Still don't need to play up to the "it's hard in here for a criminal" thing.) That might be their reality, and that's sad but... yeah.
The fact that people DO get their hearts shredded by the romance masquerading as usery from time to time is enough to put the warning out about it... I think it's a dastardly crime, really, rare enough but dastardly. Take my wallet, ouch, that hurt, I'm an idiot for letting you. But stab me in the heart??? Damn... the contents of the wallet is replacable but the heart is a lot more tricky!
THAT is the kind of consequence I would NOT want to be on the receiving end of when the karma train comes to run my *** over!!!!
*goes back to writing letters about Buddhism, bulldogs, and the beach, out of the way of speeding trains!*
Why do you think they are well off just because they are well known?
If you give with no expectations and on your own terms then you cannot claim later that you were ever scammed or taken advantage of. I agree with Saskachewanian, I don't blame them for asking at all, and if they get pizzy if I say no then I say no even firmer because I am not their personal ATM or lawyer or library service. Thankfully it doesn't happen usually because I guess I tend not to pick those types, but it has once or twice.
These [U]are[/U] inmates we are writing to.
And as for karma, there is a certain new member who may find it bites rather hard as well if she ever has any real need for assistance.
I would certainly hope my PP is'nt doing this for the "what can i get" part... i guess being new to this still its easy to be convinced because you are just happy to have made that connection. In her first letter she did say if you could help with a few dollars that would be fantastic as sending to the UK is not overly cheap and i have run out of stamps and paper which i get, so i sent her a small figure and she kindly wrote back and the first thing she said was how grateful she was for the money and explanned what she had used the money on... stamps, paper and envolopes :) We will see how this pans out but my immediate thoughts are i think i have landed on the right side of this issue so far :)
Maybe the high profile or well known inmates also have equally well known or highly paid legal teams acting for them so very little money left?
Aussie Mel no limited credibility due to time served here in my experience so far! I know exactly what you mean with the office thing as the person who was guilted in to driving nearly 2 hours out of my way on my way home from work once as she had 'forgot' to sort out a lift. I learned and hope to do the same with my PPs
I think "what I can get" ranges in scale. In your instance...she had the balls to say outright...it's expensive...I could use some stamp money. That qualifies as an inmate trying to get what they can get.
I think inmates are extremely grateful for what they receive, most times. I don't think seeing if they can get "something" in one form or another means that they don't appreciate it once it's granted. My 70 items list guy sent me a 3 page letter marvelling at me sending him $20 because he was shocked a stranger would do that. So...he's both shooting for the moon and appreciative of whatever comes his way from that. And... I can respect that system.
well sad but true...cause this can happen to any of us, despite our good intentions. And I actually know that at least one of my pp do this to some people. It luckely never happened to me. But she oppenly told me that she just talks to 1 or 2 guys to have them sending her money. It was awful to know this, cause she is a really sweet peson and we have become good friends. I tried to talk to her about stop doing it. Im the only person she writes overseas and i even offered to send her some money for stamps, but she doesnt accept it. I feel a bit guilty sometimes cause she says she has 2 pp that she loves writing to and always look forward to our letters, but she would never accept anything from us. Not even books for bday cause that would cost us money! And she writes to 2 other people just to get money from them. Sometimes i just dont know what to think of it. Its really unfair for 2 people that probably dont know about this situation... But i dont see her necessarily as a bad person for that, i just dont know what to think about it.
You'll know if the request comes in the next letter, too, or if it was sincere, is used to write you, and then maybe asked again when the paper and stamps run out. Nice of you to think that way. *Although I do get a bit irritated if they've ticked the "willing to write overseas" box and then say they can't afford it. Don't tick the box if you can't afford it!* (oops, I just said that out loud, ha ha!)
Off on a tangent slightly but my PP didn't tick the 'correspond overseas' bit but since we use Jpay only that didn't matter as the cost is the same.
He told me he didn't tick it not because of the cost but because he panicked that he would get letters in foreign languages!
That's adorable!
awww so cute.
Um, I hope that's not me LOL (paranoid much!) !! My view on the asking/giving is, they're free to ask, I'm free to say yes or no, and if I send what they asked for they don't have to be "grateful" to me - that's not why I'm in it. I do what I do because I choose to.... I'd actually appreciate my pp telling me for example what they'd like for their birthday, because the truth is we come from such different worlds it seems kinda patronising for me to assume I know what they want or what is the "best" thing to send them. What's important to me might be useless to them or cause a problem in a way I'd never even dreamed so I'd rather an honest "if you want to send me something, can you make it $20 because cash is like gold to me" :) And he can spend it on whatever the hell he likes....that's the beauty of "freely given". Hitting me up for money to have him reply though? Nuh, not gonna happen, and you can sweet talk all you like dude...all that'll get you is a goodbye postcard, also freely given :)
I used to be on another group for people who are married/together with an inmate. Most woman were great but there were so many who put their man on wap for what they can get out of pen pals ?? really no joke here they did. So i ask what they think a pen pal was ?? the answer made me so bloody mad. So i say only give what you want and never what is asked for. I was taken for a ride once ( me to blame ) never again. I now only send books no money at all.
No don't worry! I have a guess and not you at all.
That's the attitude I have got to it as well.
That's my attitude, too. PP does not mean bank or gifts. If you WANT to give things or money, they way to do it is without strings, but if you don't want to, the way to do it is without guilt just because they don't have much. Much as we might grow to like and even respect our pp's lives, the truth is, for most of them, they did something to put themselves in there, fair sentencing aside. It's a delicate balance to not take on the difficulty and pain that can be in their lives becaues of their own actions and think that *we* have to fix, rescue, or change that. Because we can't.
I think there is golden value in being a friend who gives of their humanity and time and hopefully who ever you find to write to will think that, too.
No not you :) You sound like your head is screwed on the right way.
I sure hope you're right... again perhaps thats just my inexperience of these things showing, or maybe its because im too nice and trusting... like you say we shall see in the next letter i guess :)
To be 100% honest, I wouldn't have done it only because I've already been there done that with people asking in the guise of "if you are my friend you should help me out" and have it have NOTHING to do with friendship and EVERYTHING to do with a money order scam, but... I'm not overseas.
If a guy here had said "help me out with stamps" on letter one, that would not be for me. I would question why he put up a pp ad if he couldn't afford a domestic stamp once in a while. Perhaps a bit jaded but, that would not sit right with me.
But: I really see the value of understanding that the overseas stamps really do cost a lot more and that not a lot of inmates are set up to pay that. Wanting to help with that makes sense, just like I have helped pay for phone calls. I wanted the calls so it was only fair I helped out, considering his position. Big difference between helping out in those ways and having someone repeatedly hit you up in ways that have little to do with actually valuing being in touch with you. So for that alone it's nice of you to give the benefit of the doubt.
Hope it works out positively for you.
I agree...it's surprising someone would ask right out of the gate. Especially after they ticked willing to correspond overseas.
Hopefully she turns out to be a solid penpal...but at least now you know what to look out for :)
Thanks :) Hope it stays that way, I'm as vulnerable to a sad tale as the next girl, lucky for me though I've been played by the best, divorced that jerk, learned from it, and now know how to take a step back and consider it (the situation, and myself) before I actually do anything! Giving freely is good, but balance in all things...
Got to admit though, and no personal offence intended to anyone who may read this, it seems there are more than a few people who are in fact "using" their pp's to meet their own emotional needs, in what looks on the surface to be not particularly healthy ways, so I guess the using thing is a two way street huh.
You hit the nail on the head here. 100% agreed.
Everyone has some kind of need. Some are more destructive than others.
Too funny! LOL
You know, I wouldn't care if someone was using me, as in sending me love letters and giving me lots of attention even though he didn't "love" me. To me that's just really funny because to me the actual feeling or knowing (thinking we know) if a feeling actually exists or not doesn't really matter. It's the expression of that feeling, or simply an expression itself. I don't know. Unless these guys are really going into a big scam, like the marriage scams on the outside, where people make huge plans AND invest thousands and thousands of dollars in the other person and then that person disappears with the loot and is never heard from again, then I don't mind.
As for people asking for things, they can ask all they want. I would ask and ask and ask in the hopes that maybe one thing or two would be possible, not really expecting someone to send me all of them. Yeah, aim for the stars, hit the moon, whatever. I used to have the exact same thing when I had lots of penpals as a kid. It was nothing about prison. Some would ask for all sorts of things. Whether I sent it, ignored it, stopped writing, it was no big thing.
I don't know, maybe it's just me being selfish actually, in it for myself as much as if not more than for the other person.