Hello folks :)
I never posted an introductory message, but I've been writing to inmates for 16 years. I've never had any problems, and have found that my experiences have been the same as having penpals who are not incarcerated.
Now, a wall of text to follow - my apologies for the length.
Recently, I've found that one friend/penpal has me... I don't even know how to say it. I think I'm just lost.
I found him through W.A.P. and sent my first letter to him in early Summer. I started my letter with "My name is -----, I'm (my age), I live in (state) with my husband." etc., and listed why I wrote.
I received a letter back soon after. He told me that he appreciates my letters and would always be respectful of my marriage. He's been respectful, has sent maybe ten letters, some drawings, and messages through Corrlinks. Everything was fine until last month, when he asked for information on his religion. I was happy to oblige, and sent him what he asked for. While surfing the internet looking for the information, I'd read several articles about the religion *sometimes* being linked to white supremacy groups. Now, to each his own. But I spent time over two weeks looking through the profiles here on W.A.P. and tried to stay clear of anything and everything racial. I understand that the races stick to their own in most prisons, and understand why. I just didn't want to be judged or encounter any hostility.
So, with the information that I sent him, I told him honestly that I don't know much about his religion and beliefs, as I'm unfamiliar with them. I told him that while I'd read a bit about it, I saw that there can be another side to it, in some instances. And I asked him if it was just the religion for him, or more. I explained to him that I wasn't trying to pry, but rather wanted to make sure that I was/am/will be accepted, as I am white but my husband is Hispanic. I figured it best that it be asked before it could ever become a source of contention.
At that point, he became Jekyl and Hyde. One paragraph would be lashing out at me, the next would be complimentary. Ten pages of that in one letter, then another four like through through email. He also added that he didn't want to be pumped for questions, nor did he want to be someone's science project. I don't know if he confused me with someone else, or was on something, or is unstable, but I knew that those statements could not apply to me in any way, by anything I'd ever written or asked.
I was blindsided, and took a few days to collect my thoughts. When I responded, I told him that I didn't know what to say, that as everything had been innocent and not malicious, but still evidently caused him to explode, and I didn't want to have to walk on eggshells every time I'd write.
He responded that the "pumping of questions" and "science project" comments weren't meant for me. In regard to my question, he told me not to worry, that I'm a "righteous woman."
Since then, he's referred to me as an "Aryan queen", has regularly been mentioning racial politics, and yesterday I received a letter signed "Loyal Love and Racial Respect."
I haven't seen that before - ever. And maybe it's nothing. I'm just curious if anyone else has seen this and/or dealt with a similar situation.
As of right now, I'm brushing it off, because I do think it's harmless. But this man has taken on a different personality and I'm never sure who I'm talking to or who is writing to me anymore. I'd ask him some of these things and try to talk to him about it, but I don't think there's any way that I could actually bring myself to do that, for fear that I'd get more long, drawn out verbal lashings. The first time was enough and had it not been for my husband telling me to give the guy another chance, I wouldn't have sent another letter. I try to empathize with him and treat him as well as any friend, but I won't coddle him. I really am at a loss for what to think. But maybe I'm just tired.
Ideas or stories, anyone?
Thanks in advance, and sorry again for the length of all that :)
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the phrase he used to sign off in the letter is a phrase i heard used by known white supremacy group members on the lock-up/lock-down series. don't feel alone cause i had one that flipped back and forth with confusing letters sometimes several different mood swings in one letter.i was always walking on egg shells too. i don't know what to tell you, except you got to worry about you and how this is affecting your life.
the phrase he used to sign off in the letter is a phrase i heard used by known white supremacy group members on the lock-up/lock-down series. don't feel alone cause i had one that flipped back and forth with confusing letters sometimes several different mood swings in one letter.i was always walking on egg shells too. i don't know what to tell you, except you got to worry about you and how this is affecting your life. sorry i didn't know it doubled my post : (
Kick him to the kerb.
I agree with Silas, he will just bring you sorrow's...does he know that your husband is hispanic? If he does..
Then he has no respect for you or your feelings.
Oh boy...this is what I was worried about with my pp. I don't know, if I were you I would ask him to clarify his beliefs. I mean if you are going to continue writing him you should at least know what you've gotten yourself into.
I find the fact that he called you an aryan queen quite creepy though.
See my pp is proud to be white, but doesn't harbour hate for any other race. It's a fine line, I'm still unsure about it. However when you mix religion with racism **** gets scary!!
i haven't had experience with this, but the only bit of advice i can offer is to break it off with this guy if it makes you uncomfortable. or you could tell him that it makes you uncomfortable and that you'd rather not discuss the race topic.
Sylvana, despite any of the race/relgion stuff going on, he just sounds unstable to me and in my experience it's like turning on a faucet and allowing a person with that going on in their head into your life and it's usually negative or a roller coaster ride or weird somehow, again, that completely aside from whatever the race thing is about. I just don't allow people that are going to make my life negative or stressful that close up and personal anymore, and writing is VERY up close and personal. Just my thoughts. It's too bad, and of course it's sad to let a pp go but if he feels stressful to you, you may have to.
Thanks for the input everyone, I appreciate it. I feel like I might be a little better prepared to deal with the situation. I had said to my husband last month that if I wouldn't put up with this from someone on the outside, that there's no reason to put up with it from someone else through writing, especially not from someone that I haven't known for long. But I understood my husband's point too of being fair and giving this guy a chance.
Then the letter that came last night, the closing caught me off guard. Also, my pp sent a visitation form. He'd told me once that I'd need to be on his visitation list in order for the prison to allow him to send crafts out to me. I accepted that, but he went on to say that the prison won't approve visitors unless the visitor knew the inmate prior to incarceration. I'm not sure if that's true (I haven't yet found the institution's visitation rules), but what grabbed my attention was that despite the form listing the punishment for falsifying information, this man very casually asked me to lie, which isn't going to happen.
Something just feels really off, and I'm growing leery of him.
Anyway, thanks again for the input :D
Oh, and
@sweetcami - Indeed he does know that my husband is Hispanic. I've addressed it with him several times :(
@EasyRider - I explained to him that I needed to understand his beliefs and why I needed to understand them, but it caused him to blow up. All he did was evade, but has since been throwing race-specific words and phrases in, which leaves me wondering if it's intentional to maybe ease me into accepting it.
@Melanie1972 - Thank you for the info. I heard the same from a relative right after I read your post. I'm glad to know what's behind it, rather than being ignorant to it.
Thanks gooddog :) It makes sense. And, if that's what needs to happen, that's what needs to happen. That's something for me to think on: how I'd go about cutting contact. I believe that if I wrote to him and told him that I wasn't going to write anymore, no matter how kindly I'd put it, I'd get a hateful letter back. I know it should be easy enough to not open it, but, I can be a worrier sometimes and I'd want to open it to make sure that no threats were being made. At the same time, I'd be afraid of opening a letter and seeing something that would hurt me emotionally. I think I just had an epiphany and realized that I need to toughen up, in more than one way.
i agree..... i too thought that he was on purpose trying you just to see how you would take that,like he needling you since your man is hispanic.the part about growing leery, i understand that cause i felt it to.i was put through a roller coaster of different moods from mine. i had begun to suspect he was not well mentally and on top of it all he was just obviously not interested in a pp or friendship. i hope you can work this out. i actually felt relief when i finally faced the fact that i had to just let him go.
The fact that you need to worry that a threatening letter may come your way is a sign to me that he is not good to write with. Then you're his victim of his whims, moods, or threats? Sounds like a valid concern, though. You haven't really known him that long and he's showing true colors maybe. Better now than later. If he wrote you a threat letter, you could have him blocked from ever writing again and I don't think they take too kindly to inmates writing threats and it probably would cause charges, if he's actually that stupid to do it and you felt that threatened. Not that you would bring charges or anything but I'm just saying IF it got that out of hand, I think things would go on your side rather than his. At least you could block him or just return to sender. How many letters will he send after he gets return to sender??
As far as getting an emotionally hurtful letter, yep... I've gotten them too, when it was time to kick a user, manipulator, or just plain crazy person to the curb. Okay, that's their opinion, they're allowed, just like you are allowed yours. If a guy can snap and write a threatening or disdainful letter because you're just not the one to be writing him and that's your decision and you're not even in a relationship or all that close, yeah... good luck to him with future pp's!!! There's a good chance he'll take some (obviously) pent up anger out on you and then probably find someone else to play with. Sorry that happened.
i just had it and quit writing, no warning or apologies cause i realized he didn't deserve my friendship or apologies or more chances to hurt me.
I've re-read and absorbed the responses to this post and they've helped. I feel a bit of relief now. Last night and a good portion of today I spent debating whether or not to fill out the visitation form in order to receive the portrait he's said he's had done of me. My first thought was that I would answer each question on the form honestly, and when the counselor were to get to the question of "Do you want to visit this inmate?" to see "No" checked off, she'd wonder why I filled it out. So, no point in it. I'm also not comfortable with the possibility of this man getting my phone number or home address.
I wouldn't want to be left hanging waiting for a letter, so I may write and tell him honestly that I'm uncomfortable and why, and leave it at that. But considering that race had proven to be a sensitive subject prior to his letter closing, I can't believe that was said, and I think it was distasteful. So maybe I will just return to sender his letter(s) and he can figure the rest out on his own. I'll just take it as a learning experience.
Thanks again for the help! I feel like a weight has been lifted.
have i mentioned that this is why i've never considered writing to a white guy with tattoos? :rollinglaugh: i was always so scared i was going to end up with someone like that.
Sylvana - can I ask which religion he asked you to find info for please?
Yes ma'am. It was Odinism.
Hi Sylvana...I have never had this experience with any of my pps but i can well imagine how uncomfortable & upsetting it makes you. The way i see it though....you offered him a hand of friendship, no more no less! you don't need any of his b******t & racist, hateful views! He is clearly unable to look beyond this and simply appreciate & feel blessed that you are willing to be a friend! Any friendship that makes you so uneasy & disturbs your peace of mind, i feel, doesn't deserve your support & time. There are so many sincere & wonderful prospective pps out there who would embrace your warmth, kindness & friendship with an open heart & mind. I really hope you will feel inspired to follow your heart on this..may you be blessed with a pp who is more deserving of your heart & time.
I knew it! You should probably not write to him anymore.
Edit: oops, just saw your post about returning to sender :P
@Bananashake - Thank you so much for the kind words. That meant a lot to me reading through and I appreciate it very much. When I wrote to this man originally, I sent out letters to two other men as well. I hoped to hear from at least one, and was very surprised when all three wrote. I looked specifically for profiles that said the person was looking for friendship and hoped that my letters would be welcome, but I never expected to hear back from all three due to being married. The other two have been perfect gentlemen and I feel very lucky, even blessed (as you said) to be corresponding with them and have their friendship. So I won't give up because of one bad seed. As Meatloaf says - "Two out of three ain't bad." Thanks again for the kind words :D
@EasyRider - I don't know how to explain it but I thought that may be the religion you had in mind. Have you had a bad experience with someone similar (if you don't mind me asking?).
I looked back over the letter tonight/this morning and don't know how I didn't realize it until then, but 23 and 16 were written above his name.
I know that this doesn't matter now, but maybe for future reference. And I really can't help myself. But yeah, it's true. About the approving visitors and what not. I've filled in the form for the feds, I just didn't tell the whole truth is all. :) I got approved just this week actually.
Sorry to hear about your situation though, but I agree with most that has been said here. Just return to sender! He will get the message. Good luck with it..
Thanks for the info, queenbella :) I'll keep it in mind should it ever come up again. :)
You said in your first post that you told him your hubby was hispanic?
then all of a sudden he is calling you his Aryan queen, signing his letters loyal love, and racial respect..
If i were you id dump his ass, your nobodys queen but your husbands.. I would of blasted him on that alone..
he will start coming on to you, telling you all the reasons why mixed marriages are wrong.. he will probably start running your hubby down.
I know you said your hubby thinks he deserves a chance, but my belief is, if you love your husband, your hubby deserves respect, and if he were mine. id quit writng
plus being on his visiting list he will also want you to visit,
men in prison so ive been told, seem to think, married women that write are obviously lacking something in their marriage,
He was/is fully aware that my husband is Hispanic, yes. He knew from the first letter that I was married. A few letters later, I printed out some photos of historic sites from the city to send along with a photo of my husband and I that was taken at one of the sites. He never asked about my husband, but asked my if I was Spanish or Italian, citing dark hair and a tan. I didn't think anything of it, and told him that I'm neither. Looking back, I feel I made a mistake in telling him my ethnicity. But as he'd seen my husband and with the last name being obvious, he had to know that my husband is Hispanic. Still, it was pointed out to him again after he unleashed on me for asking him to clarify his beliefs. Though he never answered me directly, he went off on tangent about skinheads and the Aryan Brotherhood that was pretty negative, which I apparently wrongly accepted as the same as him denying involvement with that or similar groups.
I'd have to find the letter to see the context in which he used "Aryan queen," but I know he wasn't saying it as if I was his. We'd talked about genealogy at some point (again, I didn't think anything of it at the time), and I'd told him about some discoveries I'd made very far back in my family history. It was a very casual conversation for my part and not much was said, I didn't go into much detail at all. So I don't know if he misunderstood or blew something way out of proportion, but it was the "Aryan" part that threw me off, as it's not a word that I see or hear unless it's a race-related conversation, which I didn't believe was what was taking place.
And I do love my husband, very much. We've known each other since we were teens and he's known about my writing. I took a break from being a penpal for a while, but before I began writing again, I asked for his thoughts and feelings. He told me that as long as we and our marriage is respected, he has no problems and thinks it's a nice thing that I'm doing. I never want there to be a question of what's being said and so my letters (incoming and outgoing) are open for my husband to read - I've insisted on it, and my penpals know this. Two of the three write back and forth with him, in fact. They've said that it's like having another friend. The third has acknowledged the marriage several times, but as I said, I never saw any problem with him until (very) recently. How he signs off on his letters has changed, it hasn't always been "loyal love." He started with "your friend," then went to "all my respect," which changed last week to (Saturday) to "all mine" then ended yesterday with "loyal love and racial respect." And that was the first time that my husband questioned anything that was written. Though something felt odd to me and I couldn't pinpoint it, I'd voice it to my husband but he'd always say "He seems like a nice guy and hasn't done anything that's sent up a red flag with me." He works in psychology so I considered his judgment and thought that I may have just been paranoid. Even mentioning that I didn't appreciate the penpal lashing out on me, my husband felt that the guy had just been hurt and was being overly cautious due to that and his current surroundings.
The visitation form was supposed to have been to have me approved for his visitor list so that he'd be able to send me a portrait, but I wasn't comfortable with it, and prior to that I'd never indicated that I would ever even consider visiting him.
I've heard that before, that men in prison seem to think that married women must be lacking something in their marriage if they're writing. Perhaps some are, but it's a shame for all to be judged that way, as it's not true for everyone. And I agree, I think it would only be a matter of time (if I were to continue writing to him, which I'm not) before I would start hearing negativity.
I started the thread yesterday thinking that I was probably looking too deep into this and seeing something that's not there, but all of my concerns were confirmed many times over. And I'm grateful for that, because I'd much rather know now than for this to continue and turn into something really ugly. I'm definitely not giving him an opportunity to spout off more. I don't feel bad about cutting contact with him. This worst part of this for me was seeing the look of hurt on my husband's face when he realized that the man who he'd been so supportive of and complimentary toward, takes issue with his race. I'm trying to not lose sight of the fact that I've never experienced anything similar to this before and everything race-related was extremely abrupt, but I feel very naive... and blindsided. Lesson learned.
double post
Sylvana ive been writing to my pal for a yr and half,hes also an odinist.In all that time hes never made any racial comments or try convert me into his way of thinking.He just says odinisim fits him more than Christianity ever did.He did tell me that his cell mate received a letter off a white women who had different race children,and that it would be just a game between them has his celly has no time for white women who had been with non white men.I would definitely drop him has his comments will only get racially motivated towards you.
I didn't have a bad experience, however my pp quoted a guy named David Lane who promulgated a religion called wotanism. It's basically an offshoot of odinism. Anyway I did my research on this stuff and apparently odinism is prominent in prison, they even have an Odinic Rite Prison Affairs Bureau.
Not all odinists are white supremacists, however odinism is an exclusively white religion.
[QUOTE]A pamphlet from an Odinist group in the United Kingdom explained that they worshiped Odin as part of a larger desire and movement to reclaim their ancestral history, and they encouraged others to do the same. Unfortunately, this means that people who are not white are not welcome at their meetings or ceremonies because they have their own ancestral religions to take up.[/QUOTE]
So you can see how it would be the perfect religion for white supremacists. Although I don't think the original intent was racism, a lot of people have taken it in that direction.
I also did my research on odinisim has id never heard of it before,it certainly is prominent in prison and a lot of racist hide behind this religion.It fits my pal perfect in spiritual way and makes him a better man.Whilst looking for reading material to send into my pal i came across some of David Lanes work and felt a bit uncomfortable on some of his writings to be honest a bit to strong for me.Odinc Rite is a great organization and they do a lot for inmates who are serious about learning their why of life.
Yeah wotanism is way creepier than odinism hahaha. Not a fan of David Lane, not at all. In fact I wish I could spank my pp for even quoting him!!
Lol i was the same when i read his stuff hahaha.
Oh ya did you read the part about when he wrote a short (fictional) story about a colony of wotanists that were living in the mountains kidnapping young white girls and forcing them into polygamy to further the white race!? Yeah I don't care if it's fictional, that's just creepy!!
Ewww i did,thats when i thought theres something not right with this fella.He also wrote about being in a bar where a white women is sat in the company of a black man that was creepy too.Its scary because some young men will hold on to every word he says.
Odinism and wotanism ...two things I have NEVER come across. Gosh you learn something new here everyday!
I can see how Odinism works for white supremacists- as its reclaiming their roots, they can exclude non-whites without actually seeming racist.
Yep! I was asking EasyRider already for some reading material. Interesting things to catch up on!
On the up side, your husband sounds like a lovely man!
Sylvana, I've had people on the outside do a quick change on me and either dump me or need dumping... it happens in life and it sucks no matter where it's happening, prison or not. But, I still say that these guys and gals that we take the time to write to, while not needing to kiss our butts over it or treat us like saviors, do need to show the modicum of respect, just like we're showing to them. I know some people have written disrespectfully from the outside, out of curiousity or weirdness, but you're not one of them!
Many people are damaged in deep and difficult ways in their minds and emotions in prison and sometimes, well, they may not be too good to be around. We can't save them or fix them but we do have to make decisions about which ones to let in to our personal lives. I don't care if you're married, straight, divorced 67 times, gay, purple, pink, etc... if the basic respect is missing, then it's a no-go for me.
Though I give a HUGE wide swath for understanding that they're in prison, it's stressful, crap happens, etc, still, I ask myself: if he were on the outside talking to me like this, how far would that fly? If the answer is not at all, then... it can't happen from the prison, either. I once had to end ties with a DR prisoner because he was obviously mentally ill and sending me crazed personalized rantings that were hurting me. Not really his fault but still, there's only so much you can do. It was shameful to me to have to leave him but I am not equipped to deal with that...
We don't need to kowtow to anyone's ravings simply because they are in prison. I think the fact that we write shows that we have empathy for the prison situation, we're not expecting to be at high tea at m'lady's house in the company of these guys but yeah, basic respect. If it's missing, it's a problem. I'm glad you worked all this out in your mind because you don't deserve "abuse." The problem is that there is another guy waiting to take his place who would LOVE your letters and friendship and not act weird!!!!!
This really ticked me off! Why should she not write him if he's an odinist? You make it sound like all odinists are racists. That's a very bad generalization, as I personally know that is not the case.
Yes, there are many racists who share this religion, but there are groups who are odinists or Asatru, as we call it here in Norway who will not have anything to do with the racist groups. So it is just like any other religions. Some people sharing this religion are good and some are bad.
i've write with only white pp and i know they are all racist.a vieuw not,but the most yes.and if they told me that i am being there ayren white queen,well, i take that as a compliment,but i write the same back.and i am no racist at alleven i have reasons enough to be a racist, but i put my white proud on the side and talks to every one, no matter if he is white or black or yellow.
[QUOTE=angel_eyes;1021024]i've write with only white pp and i know [B]they are all racist[/B]..[/QUOTE]
is this something to be proud of? the way u write it it sounds as if you are proud of that ...and ayren white queen a compliment?! :roll: dont know what to say..
anyways @ Sylvana i would stop writing him!
how can you take being called aryan queen a compliment and how can you have a reason to be racist? I'm speechless
Lol, with all due respect, does anything she ever say make any sense? Or is it just me? lol. I'm always trying to decipher what she says to begin with. No offense and what not. And I too don't get the whole being called an "Aryan queen".. as a compliment thing. But whatever, LOL.
I don't think it's a compliment, even if meant as such. So your parents married someone of their own race, woot!
I'm trying to wrap my brain around Angel Eyes' comment. Frankly it really p***ed me off to read it. My first thoughts are "WTF?! Returning a compliment on someone's Aryan royalty, having reasons to be racist but holding it in and pushing your white pride to the side to talk to "coloured people" doesn't make you racially tolerant. Is there a language barrier here? I really hope so...
"They're all racist". Do you mean your pen pals or do you mean all white pen pals/prisoners? If it's the latter then please think again before talking. You certainly don't speak for my pen pals. I know sticking with your kind is sometimes a matter of survival inside and I begrudge no one that, but it's not necessarily due to any inherent racial hatred nor is it the case for everyone. I'm as white as can be and I wouldn't tolerate a racist friend on the outside so I refuse to make concessions for friends on the inside.
At the end of the day, whatever you and your pen pals believe makes no difference in my life. Your attitude makes me sad but what am I gonna do about it? Just please don't assume everyone is like that.
Double
For some reason I always thought angel_eyes was Asian...
And I'm staying away from the racism discussion. I get stupid with that one (shut up, Tyler).
She's Belgian.
Well I was obviously wrong (shut up, Tyler). I don't know where I got the Asian thing from.
Maybe confused with me lol but I'm far off from her believes.
I've skimmed through the comments after Sylvana's reply to me above. I am amazed at how much people think they know about something like Odinism.
I'm not going to get deeply into it now, there have been posts on it before here on WAP. What I will say is, even within the pagan community there are big differences between groups of otherwise related pagan branches. You can call yourself whatever you like, but your actions and associations are what people judge you on - yes JUDGE, because that's how it works in heathen society.
If you don't like how someone writes to you, don't write back. But do it because you don't like how they write, and not because you don't like what you've been told about the particular religious path they may have adopted.
There is no real difference between Odinism and Wotanism, Odin and Wotan are different names for the same deity. You could call it Wodenism if you wanted, it would still be the same. Odinism isn't strictly the same as Asatru though.
Personally, I'm a heathen pagan. I honour the northern gods but I don't do magic and I don't drink mead. But all of you who speak English use words that come from those beliefs every week - the days of the week are named after heathen deity. The names of the saints just didn't catch on.
Strong religious beliefs are irrational, be they main stream or race related. They are programmed and anything can set off a reaction. This person sounds dangerous to me and if I were in your position, I would tell him that to continue writing would not benefit either of us. Most people would like to inform you of their feelings on all subjects. This seems to validate us as people. How can you feel comfortable with someone who waits for you to say the wrong thing so they can explode verbally or in writing. I am all for giving someone a second chance, but his response is so blatantly hostile to the point of causing you distress. That is not why we write to prisoners.
That's been exactly my thought all along :)
The Odinism was never an issue for me. Though all I know about it is what I'd read in the night I'd researched for the penpal, it's not something that bothered me and I wouldn't have stopped writing because of it (or any other religion). He'd told me that Wotan is another name for Odin, which I was familiar with from the reading. My only concern was to find out if he was practicing Odinism for the religion, or adopting a secondary meaning of Wotan as "Will of the Aryan Nation" in addition to practicing the religion.
I believe I was rather nonchalant in my approach when I mentioned to him what I'd read and asked his views. It was what set off the angry letter and emails.
There's so much going through my head that I'm finding it hard to think straight. I don't know if it was all a game to him or if he may have had another agenda. I know I shouldn't wonder about it, as I'll never know. But whatever the cause of all this, it's not a good feeling.
And I want to thank everyone again for all of the input, it's greatly appreciated :)