The poor kid was beaten to death by a number of monsters who got caught on video . .Something is very wrong with all of the [B]monsters [/B]who continually beat him and enjoyed it ye sit was obvious they enjoyed they are[B][B] un salvageable [/B][/B] the deserve LWOP in SEG 3 meals basic health care no mail out side of attorney . I do not want to hear their "sad sap " story either I I want to hear is they all got LWOP :16_angry:
All are facing capitol murder the adults might face the DP Il has the DP .
Three charged with murder in beating death of Chicago teen - CNN.com
"CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) -- [I]Three teenagers have been charged with first-degree murder in the death of a 16-year-old boy whose beating was captured on amateur video.
Darrion Albert was beaten to death last week. His death was captured on video.
One of the three is a minor, but all will be charged as adults, prosecutors in Cook County, Illinois said Monday.
They are charged in the death of Derrion Albert, an honors student who was beaten to death last Thursday. An amateur videotape of the beating has been broadcast nationally.
It's unclear who shot the footage, but a local television station that received the tape turned it over to police.
The tape shows attackers wielding two-by-fours and punching and kicking a single person. At one point, four or five males are seen beating and stomping the same young man after he falls to the ground."[/I]
time to say enough These [B]monsters [/B]have no excuses what so ever . In prisn I did not see that level of in humanity even from bosses and they were brutal that speaks for it self These [B]monsters[/B] not poor misunderstood kids who just need " sum lovin"or some other excuse try enjoyerd it as is clear . That is beyond rehabilitation nor is it worth it . they can be a example .What is on the video is the equivalent of a real warwith out of control [B]monsters [/B]. Far beyond anything in prison or what 90 some odd % do convicts will ever do .
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In the UK the monsters who do this type of Atrocity get 15 years and appeal,
That stuff is just sick and it's making me spechless...
That sh** starts over here too,the kids sharing their videos also posting that stuff at the Internet,showing them beating other kids.
That is insane ! In The US in many states a fight with anything that the prosecution can call a weapon can get you 15 years .In TX They might call it Aggrevated Assault . No one has to get injured severely either .
I think some recored the [B] Monsters[/B] not involved with them they also recored it idf I heard everything right .
Yep I t is sick to do this then post it on You Tube . LWOP no contact very fitting ii for these [B]monsters[/B] !
I am waiting for the gruopies and wingnuts to come out and say how they were not loved enough misunderstood and need a education or daddy did not play ball with th3m blah blah it is all societies fault :AR15firing:
Some questions WHY? There is apparently not a single reason .The story it was because he refused to join a gang has been discredited So don't go there . :16_angry:
Two [B]No one tried to do a damn thing [/B]:16_angry:
*I am waiting for the gruopies and wingnuts to come out and say how they were not loved enough misunderstood and need a education or daddy did not play ball with th3m blah blah it is all societies fault*
They will come and say that,but that's no excuse for doing that sh**
Two of the people involved were adults. One was a 16 year old. The student murdered was mearly waiting on a bus. None of this "wrong place, time nonsense."
He was where he was supposed to be.
And this is why we have the death penalty.
To execute justice upon the guilty as an example to others.
You can lwop the 16 year old. Curtains for the other 2 monsters.
This kid was what you pray comes into your classroom. He was bright, smart, hard working.
It is horrible.
What a very sad waste of a young lives. Not only did Derrion loose his life needlessly and a family loose a son, so have those men that committed the horrific crime, because no doubt they will face life behind bars. I can only imagine as a mother how i would feel raising a child and for them to then go out and become apart of such acts, there is NO EXCUSES to treat another as these men have done, NONE what so ever no matter your back ground, geographical location or age, but i have to wonder as a society where are we headed? What are we teaching our kids that they think this form of violence is not only acceptable it has become a part of our daily lives? Every where you turn you hear of shootings, bashing, gangs related offenses. Society is changing and it isnt for the better from what i can see. Someone took the footage, so why did they not reach out to help? I have seen comments here on the forum when another was discussing a personal issue they had and many gave the same response, protect self first, not standing up in Court to give evidence and get another convicted for fear of retaliation to their own family. So when do we say "your life is just as important as mine?" When do we speak up, go to aid another in need regardless of the outcome for ourselves? Should we not try and protect another's son, daughter, husband, brother etc? What if it was your child, your family member would you not want another to stand up, does their life mean less than yours?
I will never forget one night while out in my early 20's a group of skin heads came to our town looking for a bit of "action," they targeted a young man who was gay, 4 men surrounded him and proceeded to beat the crap out of him, bystanders took a wider route and walked passed glancing in their direction but not stopping, i saw what was happening so i ran because i could see him on the ground being kicked and stomped, i will never forget that attack, the sounds heard, the small of blood and how it still leaves me feeling today. At the time to be honest i did not realize the danger i put myself in, i reacted rather than acted, but i would still do the same today. I tried to stand over the guy protecting him physically pushing the other guys away all the while screaming. He lost his eye in the attack, was left with many broken bones and the men ran off being the cowards they were. He did NOTHING to provoke what was given to him, he was an easy target walking alone from one night club to another just down the street late one night.
I personally write to men that have committed murder, most have been inside from a young age, although they may not have taken another's life in such a way, the out come was the same, a life was taken. I have talked in depth and they have shared their personal journey with me, no sob stories but harsh realities of their crimes and choices made inside and out of prison. Although i will probably never have a true understanding of the brutality and violence one is able to inflict on another human being, i know how people can and sometimes do change with maturity, how one can be remorseful and full of regret for the actions they have taken in the past. It is easy to say lock them up and throw away the key so society is safe once more, but when do you give a person the chance at redemption if they have proven after a 20 year time frame they are now no longer a danger to anyone, that their thought process is not the same as it once was? Do we keep them caged while society suffers with the crippling debt of the prison system to the point that schools are closing and more prisons are being built instead? We always talk about building bigger and better prisons, keeping people in isolation for the duration of their time, but when do we build the people up so the prisons are no longer in such great need? The solution does not lie in throwing away the key, although i TOTALLY AGREE some should NEVER be released or housed with others for not only protection of self but those that surround them including guards, but these people are the exception to the rule and not the norm.
Yes the crime committed was horrific, but i still do not support LWOP in most instances. I think their has to be a time a panel can review a persons character, their actions and current mindset and circumstances to make those choices based on their growth if any over a greater time frame. An example, speaking of being reviewed after serving 20 years for 1st degree murder. You will never replace a life taken, you will not be able to serve any kind of time and it be acceptable to the innocent life lost nor their family members, but why place a huge burden on society if that person is truly rehabilitated? Evidence shows "that 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for a new homicide after release". So many people sit behind bars with LWOP that could be productive members of society if given a chance, and not all are violent offenders.
Bureau of Justice Statistics Criminal Offenders Statistics
Talya Peanut we were right
One note all involved are being charged as adults and all face capitol murder which carries death or LWOP in Illinois So in all likely hood none these monsters is ever getting out Seeing all are identified no need for a plea . All Appeals will fail they got caught . Not a doubt about what when on . Actually very rare where there is full video and audio recording of a homicide
Most young people do not act like this .Some might do dumb things a few might act ion a very violent way though it is not all that common . I could care less why they did they did they got caught on video doing laughing joking and thinking was funny as hell .
Society does not teach any one this . Where I live there are not horrific crimes in fact there is not much violent crime at all. I can go to a community a few hours away far from me where there is poverty nothing like this goes on . Society is a part of many problems but not this .
The idea of LWOP is punishment not rehabilitation . They monsters are beyond rehabilitation and I do not want to spend any more than needed to permanently remove them from society period .What does it say about how we value a life if we do not give these remorseless monsters LWOP ? In a no human contact setting. Three meals basic health care, no TV or commissary not a damn thing for the rest of their life .At their age that is one hell of a long time of the same exact thing every single day. They earned it ! What about Derrion Albert and his family what does this rehabilitate the monsters , it is societies fault attitude say to them . That if a gang of monsters wants to kill they can because they felt like it This was a atrocity not any where close to most homicides .
I am well are of the statistics . I know that most people who commit some form of murder do not re offended . I know that those who do time for violent crimes are much less likely to re offend .
It has been stated in many places he was not in the wrong place at the wrong time he was n to involved in any criminal activity at all he was just there . and those monsters brutally killed a zipper apparently upstanding young man enjoying every minute . They are beyond redemption We in the US do not want to rehabilitate them after what they did . Why does society owe them rehabilitation after what they did .
Many In prison are able to change their live a and are able to be rehabilitated. These guys are not nor do I want to . It is a insult to every one else to even entertain the thought
Saying that we should not have LWOP makes it much harder for those of us who oppose the DP to get rid of it . We have to admit some are just beyond help and rehabilitation So do things so horrific that they gave up any chance at life outside of prison . That is called Punishment They might be small in Number but there comes a point where some one goes to far and need to be permanently incapacitated with out killing them . .What kind of message do we send when we say oh we will talk in20 years and see . If you can go free !at 20 that would make them 40 still young enough to do lots of evil .
Should we let the likes of Charles Manson , Bart Whitaker , Gary Ridgway , Scott Peterson , Hank Skinner and other remorseless killers out even into GP with in prison ? That is insane They find death a release so lock them up and let them know you will die alone in your cell where you will live alone for years on end with out any change at all your done ! All of them are right where they belong in a seg alone all the time as it should be just get rid of the groupies and the punishment is complete . Sadly all of these monsters will get groupies . :thumbsdown:
They found a 4th one. He is over 18 too.
No lwop. Execute them after a year and a day.
They wont, Peanut. All they know is they want what they want when they want it and they do not care about anyone else. They killed a young man that did NOTHING to them. They are a waste of skin.
I don't like any one of them and want them to get LWOP
I also question a deep desire too kill as if there is some sort of sick satisfaction in it . Doesn't that make some not any differnt than these monsters . That is troubling to me .
If you want punishment LWOP if you want revenge l kill them .
This is not about the DP though this is about a bunch of monsters . who should never get out .
Most people have no clue as to what prison really is like and the idea of never leaving a place like seg on Polunsky to me is far worse than death .
If you did time you will know that LWOP is near . It really is more severe than death . Tghat iswhy for thease mosnters i want themto know that they will never get out or have anything real life again .
Try imagining living with that knowing you will never ever be free never really have a relationship never go on a date , never make love , never get truly married as in a wife and kids in a home , never take a vacation never go to college get a job . Never ever again most of what you enjoy .
.That is very difficult to grasp until you have done time . I think If I got LWOP I would end my life . They might be alive but they are not living a life Try this in a cell 23 / 7 for these monsters 50 - 60 + .years .
Everything that is important to these monsters will be over never to have any of it again that is punishment .
Death is far to easy and is revenge .
Peanut ending LWOP is a fringe thing . Most of us know there are some far to dangerous to ever let out . ending LWOP in our life times is not a realistic possibility unless there are incredible leaps in stem cell research and neuroscience so we can find a way to alter their thought process that itself has many moral and ethical land mines . Though It has possibility for many cure . a whole new topic
I try to explain that getting rid of LWOP hurts the Aniti DP cause. With LWOP we can at least partially repair damage done in the face of the growing number of false often maliciously or deliberately obtained false convictions
I would rather a few monsters live their lives in prison than risk killing a innocet human .
*Death is far to easy and is revenge .*
I totally agree with that.
They haven taken a life.
Now they have to deal with that what they have done,in Prison they will have alot of time to think about it ( if they are able to use their brains).
The dead of a human demands a harsh sentence, no doubt. LWOP is better than a barbaric killing by state, but i would wish a more flexible handling/punishment. A system could give (for instance) a life sentence which [I]must[/I] not mean "until the end of life", but it could. Punishment for these offenders is one thing but i believe the society should think about what made them so crude/cruel/inhuman. It´s not only an american problem. Tayla is right, we had some weeks ago nearly the same case in Munichs city railway, when a goup of juveniles has beaten a business man to death only because he tried to protect some kids from these group.
My thought is that something in their minds was and is wrong, in their attitude. You can see such cases everywhere and i guess it must reasons exist. We should reflect about what these reasons could be to "fight" against. Otherwise will it be not the last case we have to deal with.
Smiley excellent post!
what people fail to realize is that every year 3,000 Chicago school age(Uhh most Inner city kids are still in hi-school at 18 and 19 and these kids were still in school) get KILLED that means that at least 2,000-2,500 are doing the killing. Most of the killing happen between 3-7 pm when the majority of th eparents are at work,,these kids are being ignored and lfet to hang with gangs while parents scrimp and save to pay high rents.
there are No after school activites and most schools hardly have any tools to reach out to the inner city kids.
they are getting more angeir and more violent and the PACK mentality which is a human trait takes over.
LWOP for somone so young is horrible because most of them have not even formed a mature moral judgement at this age. The testosterone levels are at their highest and there is nothing to run it down in the streets.
But what you dont see on TV or hear about is the kids that get killed at Suburb school hazing,,trying to be apart of the cheerleading squad or football squad,,,where are the outcries there???,,Nooooo the media brushes it under the carpet like the only MONSTERS that exist are innner city black men,,,,Pffft!:16_angry:
Andreas i agree with all you have shared and wish people would look outside the box not just at the outcome, but like another has shared they dont care to know the reasons why people take such actions only viewing them as monsters separate from themselves wanting them locked up for their natural life, and that is where the problem lies. So if we did nothing for this mindset and thinking, we will never solve the problem it will continue to increase.
Wobabi thanks for your comment, i know not many here support the way i feel when it comes to these issues, but i feel compelled to speak honestly anyway no matter comments shared. The only reason this made such a big stir in the media is because it was all captured on footage, this is a daily occurrence for many, not just one young man minding his own business as you shared so where is the outcries, do they exist does anyone care? Or is it that many are loosing their life in gang related crime so it makes it acceptable, no one really caring about those young kids?
I also agree with you that LWOP for someone so young is horrible, these are NOT monsters these are kids in my opinion, but then again i do not attach that word to anyone, but that is just semantics anyway. No matter how you feel when you look at the prison population it speaks volumes, when you look at state debt and outside your own surely you must question and reflect on what is taking place and the reasons why. If something you are doing is not working (locking people up for greater lengths of time or DP as a deterrent) and you continue to do the same thing day after day how will you ever expect the outcome to change? Prison populations are only increasing, like i have said already state debts are mounting, cuts are being made to programs inside and out of prison, there are no winners, so isn't it about time changes were made? Not just letting petty thieves out that will more than likely re offend (from all stats) but review the ones that have served 20 plus years, for violent and non violent crimes?
I think many inside really do well with programs to help the youth, those already serving time and the ones on the brink. Trying to help them understand the road they are on will lead them to the big house with no return sooner or later and what they will loose as another posted if they are locked up for life, but i know just with the men i support that has been an up hill struggle for them to achieve. Their is a stigma when it comes to prisoners, ex or otherwise and i dont think that will be changing any time soon. You need to implement greater preventative measures than just throwing away the key when convicted for any crime, and EDUCATION does come into play in a big way. :)
The problem is, Smiley, is that these guys committed murder and it was videoed. They have NO future outside a jail cell for either the rest of their lives or until they are executed.
I just would call one of them *kid*,that 16 year old boy.The other ones are 18 and 19 years old.
Sorry I think that's old enough to know what could happen when I beat someone,and they have to deal with the consequences for what they have done.
Elric i do understand like you that this is the REALITY for those involved with this horrific crime, but this is not an isolated case. Maybe the footage is, although as others have shared it is something that is on the increase now with the ability to use a cell/mobile phone to record and have it sent over the net or passed on, just like you see so much Police footage and mistreatment making light of day now.
Department of Corrections, Rehabilitation and Justice should be just that, but sadly for many it is not, their is no rehabilitation actively going on, it is just warehousing, very little if any programs are offered and all they are learning to become are better criminals, nothing else unless they as individuals do so. (words from a prisoner). I guess i just feel strongly about the ability for one to have a second chance at life *IF* after serving 20 plus years it is proven and documented beyond a doubt that they are no longer a danger to society. So many people are in prison with LWOP, especially many serving under the 3 strikes law. I still find it hard to understand why you think lengthier sentences equate to justice, when no amount of time served for some crimes compensate for crimes committed.
[QUOTE=peanut2;932657][COLOR=blue]I agree tayla, they have to face the consequences, not change the laws to think of ways to excuse what has been done.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
I am not making any excuses for any crimes past or present, i am not wanting to change laws as an excuse for behavior or actions taken. What i am looking at is taking a REALISTIC look and approach into the problem and locking people up with LWOP when their is a POSSIBILITY of REHABILITATION in many cases serves NO purpose other than to create what you are seeing now, over crowding, huge debt and the ripple effect continues in so many areas. Then again when you look even deeper in many ways the prison population supports the economy.
Smiley, I know it is not isolated. I have the feeling that the guys responsible will be in prison for life. I also do not mind rehab. I really dont. BUT the person has to want it THEMSELVES. You cannot force it upon them. I would not mind inmates being able to earn college credits if they were willing to pay for it.
Mod edited the evil sick Groupie talk and any one else who say LWOP is is not the only acceptable punishment for these uncivilized savage nonredeemable , twisted ,sick ,vile, barbaric , lower than animals monsters from hell is sick, disgusting , repulsive and lacks any compassion for their victim period end of debate
[B]There is no excuse .[/B]
I saw a lot on Polunsky but not this . Stop minimizing my time on Polunsky It is very hurtful! :unibrow: I know you could care less as long as Chi Mos skinners and other sick twisted wife/ GF killing child raping killing monsters from hell get released . ! My time in the worst prison in the US is nada to you ! :poke1:
That is a very hurtful Mc Niel Island is nothing compared to Polunsky dare any one to tell me differnt .Om McNeil Island they get their own private room TV , radio , good meals they cook themselves and so on so stop it ! :deadhorse:
It hurts when you compare your guys "tough" time at McNeil Island! A place for child molesters and killers a true country club compared to Polunsky Not even close so stop it They would not last long in TDCJ
Damn a pot head in TX gets tread worse than a chi mo skinner where on MC Neil Island WT F ! so stop it .Your "boys" would not last a day on TDCJ They would check out to PC ASAP
What you say hurts the anti DP and justice reform, so much do you get that !
We have to admit some are so evil and brutally savage monsters from hell they should never get out . There is not a excuse for this ! It is not society's fault at all that is plain sick .Th killers are just evil savage monsters from hell . let Them go back to a clean version of hell in seg no human contact !
Do you get the outrage fro the overwhelming majority of the USA !
I am sick of this blaming society for Savage uncivilized monsters and beasts from hell . LWOP is all the deserve no mail no visit nada just a cel land small l bucket for waste they can lick it clean for water , 2 cold moldy meals as those in poverty get less and Advil for health care no more I'm sick of this SHYT and it hurts any prison reform or anti DP After all they are savage monsters and beast from hell they deserve less really.
They make what all I saw on Polunsky look like a damn joke .That says all you need to know . :censored:
Bottom Line LWOP No Human Contact for the uncivilized near lower Than animals savage beast monsters from hell. Send Them To the ADMAX ,Pelican Bay or Polunsky and lets see how the savage monsters do !
Hell the Chi Mos, Skinners in WA would not make it the Womens Gatesville units or Hobby Those gals would tear those child raping wife killing a holes apart
I am sick of time in easy joints being compared to Polunsky by a few whiners and wackos
Yeah I am mad as hel lat the excuse some make for the savage monsters
Ther is not any reason av all it is totality un comprehensible .LWOP No Human Conract is all they deserve !
OH there are 50 DOCs The BOP and a few territories that have prisons each has it's own r way of doing things unlike the utopia of AU ! is that so hardto get ! Stop the US Bashing
*LWOP for someone who is so young is horrible*
Hey these guys have killed someone.They are saying one of these *boys" is out on probation for robbery conviction.
Sorry no rehab for someone who has killed another person.
Smiley, the more flexible punishment system i was talking about do we have. To have a specific age doesn´t mean to be adult in your mind. That´s a simple fact. The other simple fact is that a human was beaten to death. It demands punishment. When ccc footage exists, then is it good to assess who played which role at this crime. Everyones part in that action and his age should be seen differently as the foundation for everyones specific punishment.
The original problem deserves a second view by the society. Deadly violence in such crimes is an exception here, but violence readiness itself exists also here. This is the original problem, when the respect for your neighbours life seem to be non-existent. We should ask what we can do before it is too late (like in that case).
Mc Neil Island has 2 prisons on opposite sides of the Island. One is for housing sexual offenders that have ALREADY served their time for crimes committed but are still held as judgments have been made that deemed these people as a threat to society, and therefore live and are treated much differently to the DOC population. Yes they have the ability to wear street clothes, have greater freedom, but at the end of the day they are still caged.
Special Commitment Center Home Page
The other side of the Island is where min prisoners serve their time.
McNeil Island Corrections Center
I think everyone going into a prison setting has their own truths of the harsh realities one faces, i would hope NO ONE would minimize or belittle anyone's time within the walls no matter where that time is served because it is all relevant to that person. Like I have said before a “civilian” going in with no support inside does it a lot harder than another that is a gang member having family and friends inside, so no matter where you do your time the person you are, the attitudes you have and hold, the people you know make it easier or harder not just the prison.
When i visited at McNeil i was treated well by all (did not go the sex offenders side, but interacted with others), the guys are able to leave their seats and walk around the room choosing food from the vending machines, go to the Chapel on Sunday with their visitors, but many of these men serving time have worked hard at gaining points, not getting into trouble and need to be infraction free so as not to loose their points to have these privileges and stay on the Island. My mate did not start out at Mc Neil, he was in ad seg for many years housed with DR inmates at Walla Walla which is no picnic ground, but over a long period of time behind bars and many prisons instate and out he has progressed along with his thought process and actions and i guess this is a small part of why i feel as i do about rehabilitation and the stats support my thoughts on those people that serve long term for offences committed and reoffending when released. I write others in different states, one has been in for 20 years and is now doing his PhD and I know others, these are not isolated cases.
Many people lost their life on the day of the brutal bashing, not just one. It is easy to look outside the window, but harder to look in the mirror. I don’t think anyone is bashing anyone. We are all just sharing thoughts and experiences, what this forum is for.
Andreas like you i think a healthy respect for others in society today is disappearing, and we do need to look at preventative measures instead of a "cure", stopping crime such as what we are seeing today before it starts, look into the why's. If you look around the world you see a changes everywhere, it is a scary thing to think what we are leaving our children and their children.
OT but …. perhaps this is part of the thread
To be honest Smiley a lot of what you say is very different from a what any one who has done time or is very familiar with prison . It is as if there is a huge disconnect between what we lived and what you say goes on .
Please comparing a place like that to any TDCJ unit is ridiculous , not even close . Quarterly packages, TVs in cells not in any TDCJ unit work release not in TDCJ . Visits on any day of the week not in TDCJ only weekends except DR . Only two hours on one day . 4 hours on both days if you are lucky and get a “special visit “ you have to travel more tan300 miles to the prison using TDCJs mileage not your odometer . Store every two weeks and you have a $80 dollar limit now , less if you catch cases or in Seg or DR and not a level 1 . How about at minimum strip searches twice daily every day . At the time you got one 5 minute call every 90 days on a speaker phone a boss stood near by listening to every word . You have to work no choice unless you cannot and getting a work restriction is not easy Then there are the ever so much “fun” lockdowns that can last weeks . not a few hours or days . TDCJ just this year installed phones and they are very restricted on who you can call and how many calls you can make a month . If any one thinks any TDCJ unit is the same as the place described think again or you really do not have a clue .Even the least restrictive TDCJ unit is harsher than many so called max prison elsewhere And definitely harsher than every min or medium prison any where else
.
I recall a guy in diagnostics thinking he was going get a TV and quarterly packages and all kinds things sent to him lots of visits and so on . He did not believe what was told to him in county before catching chain to TDCJ when told other wise he was not happy . He thought he was going to do all kinds of stuff., Not have to shave or keep his hair cut as told. Then he leaned there are all kinds or rules and you can catch a case for things that are not a infraction in other systems . When he found out just how harsh TDCJ is he said this has to be the toughest place he ever been on . And he had been in a few states prison systems and a short bid in the BOP . He flat out said most guys would not make it on the female units after being told they are the the same . In fact those who had done time in other systems seemed to have the hardest time on Polunsky .
So yeah TDCJ is far harsher than most prison systems CA has it's gang and over crowding problems but even they can't come close to how harsh TDCJ is .
Had those monsters done that in TX all the adults would get the DP the minors LWOP( TX now has it) all those monsters would spend the rest of their miserable existence in seg as verified gang members .
The bottom line is they went to a extreme well beyond most murders that was a atrocity not just shooting some one and they die quickly. that group savagely beating a young man who did nothing wrong was not in any way not even comprehensible to most normal humans who have empathy for others . I have zero sympathy for those monsters that is why I hope they get LWOP and go straight to Seg and stay in seg for the rest of their lives .They can think about their enjoying a brutal murder for years on end . maybe we can put The victims photo in their cell in a way they have no choice but to see it every day for the rest of their miserable existence and be forced to think on why they are never ever getting out .
They do not deserve anything at all outside of three meals a hard bed and basic health care .
It bis as if a very few could care less a person died a inconceivably brutal death at the hands of monsters getting their thrills from it laughing as they killed him .All the deserve is punishment as in LWOP . A young life full of promise from all accounts was savagely and senselessly extinguished . I and the vast majority of the US do not want to rehabilitate them at that point . Saying anything but LWOP hurts the cause to reform prison some crimes deserve just that no matter the age . It also hurts the Anti DP cause greatly when any one suggests these monsters should ever get out of prison .
Where is the moral compass?
No one her is not asking why we really cannot begin to understand it . Hell I saw stuff kick off but nothing like that .No one is saying there are not social problems that need to be fixed that is just plain wrong and every one has posted that there are problems that need to be fixed at one time or another .
What we are saying is they did it got caught on video and now have to spend the rest of their lives in prison or get executed if one believes in the DP and they are over 18 .No one say that things that go on in society do not contribute in one way or another to a lot of problems .
Society did not make them act in such inhumane manner . They did and only they did .
By giving them LWOP we are preventing them from ever doing this again .
Ase, the can still harm others in prison. Even on death row...
BUt yeah, putting them so far deep in a prison would work for me.
The way seg is run currently , if done correctly it is very difficult for them to kill. Yeah they might cause minor injuries but . From What I saw on Polunsky DR, I worked there routinely as my "job" .No they are not going to kill any one very easily it would y take a a few very dirty bosses to help them . They essentially never come into contact with any one unrestrained . and with modification of cell doors and resrticing what they can have no toothpaste tube or other containers act up enough and you lose all but a small pencil and paper a few stamps and envelops .
Same would go for the AD MAX or places like Pelican bay or Eyman SMU in AZ Tamm s and other max and super max facilities . Plenty of trouble they can cause but kill not very likely . Seg in those places is as close to total isolation as it gets .
It's ok to lock them up at AdSeg...
ASE you know a hell of alot more that me so I would value your opioion, I had none prioir to reading the thread,
I was not comparing so sorry if i gave out that impression, i was simply clarifying because of comments made by yourself, because not only do i feel you have a misunderstanding of what i have shared in the past, but comparisons should NOT be made for anyone serving time like i said it is all relevant to THEM no matter what system you find yourself serving time in.
I discuss many comments here from yourself and others with prisoners (as i have shared before) trying to get their perspective and i also read many of these posts out to my mate who has done 20 years and is still serving time because it helps me understand many comments and perspectives shared making good discussions. We talk in depth DAILY and many times i express on the forum what he is feeling and the thoughts of others that have not only served time with him but those in different states. I do share my personal thoughts also from the understanding i have because of them and the knowledge i have gained from not only working here in the system for years, but actively helping outside my own country within the prison system, and you are right i have not served time, but does that take away from the information i have gained through others serving time, the work i do and me living precariously through another still serving time?
You have shared many times about your time served, but not ALL have the same experiences as yourself, nor do they have the same thought process. Inside or out of prison we may experience the same as another, but feel differently based on our beliefs, values, ethnic back ground, age, understanding etc etc. I am simply trying to share, not making comparisons, like i have said i am sorry if you feel otherwise.
Didnt you say a while back that you saw someone get killed while you worked on polunsky??
Yeah. Plead guilty and hope the judge is feeling generous.
Of course, he probably won't be.
well one thing is for sure. they wont ever get out. that is one thing you can count on.
To clarify Iwas on both Ellis and Polunsky Also . Polunsk has a GP and not every one spends 23 / 7 in their cells many do on Polunsky because it is intended for that . Even the manipulative psychopath Bart Whitaker now states that there is a GP there . Well he had to when photos were released . So it is convient to say there is not a GP and SSIs when it suites the gruopies needs but there is when Bart& friends need more money? Also the "go" ( they give their order to a boss ) to store 2 x a month not weekly in all TDCJ units . DR level 1 s can spend the full $ 80 level 2 and 3 much less
In order or the unit to run unit needs trusties. Because TDCJ relies very heavily on prisoners to do almost all but security health care and and administrative work all unpaid . Some even drive TDCJ vehicles to deliver stuff not offers obviously Polusnky and has everything from G1 - DR that means trusties to the worst of the wrost .
No the person I saw killed was A not in seg B on Ellis a differnt Unit . Where DR was before it got moved to Polunsky and DR offenders could mix with population . Due to escape attempt many assaults and a few murders DR got moved to Seg on 12 bldg on Polunsky . He was killed by a shank and one convict did it not a bunch of monsters . The whole thing lasted less than 5 minutes .
I got moved to Polunsky prior to DR going there because they needed more convicts to do work .
People often wrongly assume or are told by misleading sites Polunsky is solely DR . It is a max security unit A max security prison can have every level of offender . What you read on Groupie Talk tm is not all that accurate and lot of BS is told to get money for store .
In TDCJ at any rate DR ad seg convicts would have a very hard time killing they can casue a lot of trouble but kill not likely
a prisoner not in seg DR or can kill as they have much more freedom to move around .
Also way OT but but a lot of the stuff I have read about Polunsky recently is pure fiction . It is a very tough harsh place but some make out to be something out of movie . Just because a few high profile psychopaths make stuff up and it is posted on a well known site does not make it true .
Was not wanting Ase to take any plea bargin. It was for the guys in Chicago.
The monsters that killed the young man who is the subject in this thread.
He leaves behind a hole in a lot of people's hearts.
This whole mentality of "Stop Snitching" that a lot
of young people have needs to end.
When you see a crime taking place talk to the police.
Peanut You are right the “no snitching “ BS about calling law enforcement as a witness is cruel form of control and manipulation . Many cops will tell you flat out that people do not talk because they fear retaliation not just in the inner city but in almost every incident now . even kids in schol wil retalite if some one "snitches"
This "Gangsta" glorification is has got to end .
I posted on another thread how I feel unsafe reporting things .such as introducing contraband . And some one all but said I should to put my and my loved ones in danger of being killed ! That person has some twisted values if they think it is OK to put peoples lives at risk ,with out any protection .
I guess that person does not realty value life but thinks every one should hold their naive idealistic view of life . Nor do they really care about others just their own very unusual Utopian view of life and its often cruel realities .
It is up to the state and federal governments to fund programs to protect witnesses if they want to solve crimes . It shows when they do not where their priorities really are and how much the value us .
People are not going to talk to cops if they know they could lose their life . Nor should they .
Those who make threats and retaliate should face life and or LWOP depending on severity of offense . We need to be handing out LWOP a lot more for these anti social monsters . Maybe the message will get though . You should get LWOP for retaliation and death or injury results . It is that serious of a offense .
Yes I believe in LWOP and good use of it for monsters and sociopaths who think they can terrorize society so they can do as they please . As well as Skinners if you rape a kid LWOP .
I am confused, you talk about how more people should stand up and be heard, that "Gangsta glorification has to end" and that "no snitching BS has to end", and i say the same thing that people need to speak out and i am living in utopia and have twisted values?? My belief is YOUR life is just as important as mine and *I VALUE YOUR LIFE* as i do mine, and by speaking out, albeit i maybe in danger, i should do so because if i dont keep silent i may save anothers life. That is *MY* moral compass. I am only expressing as you have that staying silent NEEDS TO END, we need to speak out and report crimes to the Police and not just be bystanders. (In a prison setting you have a TOTALLY different complex set of problems if you "snitch", and was not referring to those inside, but us on the streets.)
When i was their many years ago now and was a witness, having to be present when arrests were made, being face to face with those being arrested i spoke out, and i was warned by the Police at that time to keep a low profile due to other gang members that would more than likely retaliate and come looking, i also went to court for this case. I still spoke up, not because i was brave or any other crap, but because i had a belief that what i was doing was right. What i was saying in my other post is if we all kept silent criminals would rule our world much more than they do now, because like you pointed out it is the silence in ANY crime that enables a person to continue their crime, be it sexual assaults, robberies, murders etc. Of course you take precautions to keep your safety, but how can we SOLVE crime if we continue to come up against a wall of silence? At some point we need to speak out, that is all i was meaning when expressing my opinion.
Smiley, what you did was well, i have no doubt about. But this is not the original problem. It makes no sense to send more and more people into a prison for a long time without having a view for the sense why the young offenders have done what they have done and how they have done. It makes no sense to see them incarcerated and to wait until the next will come. This is what we should think about to prevent such incidents. It´s sad to say but when such incident happens then the society has failed.
I fully agree with you Andreas, we do need to look behind the actions, their in lies the problem as i have tried to express in many of my posts, it truly serves no purpose to lock someone up and throw away the key as many others would like us to believe especially juvenile offenders that have a lot of room for growth and have not even reached adulthood yet, still acting on impulses not fully understanding the consequences of their actions. That is one of the reasons you are unable to vote until you are 18, unable to drink until you are 21, because society has said you are incapable of making mature decisions yet they sentence you as an adult ????
I agree society has failed, you only need look around to see that. Our DNA has not changed and yet we are seeing more and more brutality, the only thing that is changing rapidly is the societies in which we live. That is a DIRECT reflection of the people within in my opinion..